Commission Minutes 09/05/1984 CaI'Ji~I Z~IOV'a_D]:NG All ~PLa'BCTLVJS
ACTTON: Resolution No. 84-17831 adopted, authorizing execution of
ZnterlocaI Agreement with Dade C.~unty, Florida, pertaining to
Countywe issuance of up to G80,000t000 special obligation bonds,
as well as con~letion bonds Bed additional boeds for the
financing of expansions and improvements to the alami Beach
Convention Center, aed the assignment of Clty~s 2/3's share of 3%
Convention Development Tax as security for the bonds, with
utility service tax revenues aed franchise fees as secondary
funding source to pay principal, premium, if any, and interest on
boeds~ agreement to be effective upon execution aed remain in
effect as long as any bonds are outstanding.
During discussion, Dade County Comissioner James Redford urged
approval of agreement so the County can draft the bond ordinance
for first aed second reading, which he anticipates will be
9/18/84 and 10/2/84 respectively. He advised that the case on
the 3% county-wide Convention Development Tax will be heard by
the Superme Court on 10/3/84.
Also see related item R-SC.
PARKINS: C-4G. The document is in the process now of being handed out to
you. It has been approved by the City Attorney. A quick overview on the
document. Conlntssioner Shockerr has worked diligently on behalf of all of us
in working on this document. Essentially, it recognizes that ~4etropolttan-
Dade County is the bank, that they are issuing bonds for the purpose.of
assisting us in the expansion of the Convention Center. They have asked, and
we think lt's reasonable, that they ask, and we agree, that if we get
earnings, that is the revenue stream is greater than that required for purely
debt service, other than an account or a reserve set up for operation and
maintenance or replacement, that we pay off the bonds as quickly as possible,
and that seems like a reasonable request. There is no impediment to future
distribution of tax. After the bonds are paid, the continued flew of the
two-thirds or two cents flow to the City and we believe it's a good
agreement. Con~nissioner Redford, did you want to coment on this?
Connisstoner Shockerr I know has ...
DADE COUNTY C0ee4ISSIONER JA/4ES REDFORD: Yes. Let me first go back Just a
second. I wanted to Just clarify our action ..o
WEISBURD: State your name.
REDFORD: Yes. Jim Redford, County Commissioner. Just wanted to go hack,
just for a moment, for your South Beach. AS a matter of record, we passed it
yesterday on the basis of we're grandlathering in your tax incremental
financing. We're doing that because there may be a future determination of
how we're going to grant or not grant tax increments in the future.
we're grandlathering you in as was aed that's with a few agreements, and
Just like to get that part of the record because we have a number of
applications which may be problems, not here, but on the mainland.
On this particular thing, I think this Interlocal ~greement is most
important. The passage of this is going to precipitate the toed ordinance.
If this is passed today, I'll be able to go immediately to our legal
department aed we will draft the toed ordinance which will be heard on first
hearing September 18th and then the second and final hearing would be on the
first Tuesday, I guess that's the 2ed of October, and at that time, that is
the day before the Supreme Court hears the case on the 3¢ tax. Now, the 3~
tax, of which you're getting 2C and 2C of it will be backing this particular
project, that case is on acceleration. It doesn't seem as if it was
accelerated, but, unfortunately part of the acceleration came during the
sumner vacation period. So, it could be, conceivably, that on the passage of
CO~IISSIONMINUTES- 9/5/84 Page
/
REDFORD: that ordinance and your acceptance of that, we could possibly, a
couple, three weeks, maybe even a little longer, but it could be quite soon
after that that you could begin your plans and so forth for the expansion.
So, therefore, tt's quite important that we really get to moving on this
thing and have it ready Just so in case lt's needed you can move quickly.
This is a very strange market, this whole bond market. It's been up and
down, all over the place. Itss really, essentially, moving sidewards, but in
a very wide range.
NOw, this, you might call this Interlocal agreement business decision.
We sat with Commissioner Shockerr, Mr. Parkins, and a number of other people,
bond counsel, your counsel, our counsel, and others. We've come up with this
decision. Essentially what it does, and I think that at one time there were
two points of contention but they have been ironed out at least in the
committee that sat and negotiated this ... We have, and I want to make a
small correction, Mr. Parkins, we have set up a reserve fund, since last you
saw this thing. This reserve fund is not for cosraN)n, everyday maintenance,
this is for in the event of a large disaster, a fire, a hurricane, or say an
explosion of a large air condittoner or something of this sort. We have no
objections to setting up a reserve fund so that nan be taken care of. To
take care of any other concerns, we have also set up conditions where
Completion Bonds can be issued in the event there is an overrun in costs and
we will, and have in here, and will in the bond ordinance, a contingency to
that effect. So, if you start to run over on costs, we can issue Completion
Bonds.
The one thing that we have done, for two or three reasons, we have done
this business about if there are excess revenues, we want them to go to pay
off the bonds after the reserve fund has been fed, largely for two reasons,
one, of course, that this bonding is going to be a Dade County bond and it
will accrue tOwards our bonds. In other words, we have a certain number of
bonds that we really can issue as far as the underwriters are concerned, and
this counts towards that. So, the quicker we can get them retired, the
better off for us. However, we"re glad to issue these bonds for you.
The other thing, also, is the marketability. We always come back to
that. These bonds have got to be marketable and these bonds, convention
bonds, are a class -- and we have some experts actually on Wall Street on
these type of bonds, and they're not the darlings of Wall Street, believe me.
They have got to be made extremely marketable. We have to have a lot of
contingencies in there. We have to be flexible. We may have to do some very
complicated types of financing to get this through. We're willing to do this
but the only contingency is that after, for the reserve funds, we would like
to see any excess funds, if there are any, go tOwards retiring of the bonds.
I ' 11 answer any of your questions. We have attorneys from Fine,
Jacobson, who are the bond counsel for our particular side. We have Vicki
Jay who is our Assistant County Attorney who has been handling this issue.
Anything more technical than I brought up, they can answer.
WEISBURD: We have a speaker. Benita Argos, are you here? No? You've got
to keep up, we"re going to move fast today.
VOICE: Here she is.
WEISBURD: Benira, you're speaking on C-4G? Good morning.
BENITA ARGOS: Good morning.
WEISBURD: I mean, we don't want to waste your time.
REDFORD: Do you have any techical questions on this particular agreement. I
mean, Imm cot going for it or against it, but actually on the agreement
itself, any questions?
WEISBURD: Well, before she gets up, I'll tell you truthfully, I read this
about 1:30 in the morning and I was a little bleary eyed, but what is this
secondary pledge that the City has to comply with on our franchise and
utility fees?
PARKINS: In the interest of making the bonds more marketable, we were
advised that we would have to pledge in essence 125% of face value, the 100%
being made up from the flOw of the revenues from the additional 2¢ tax, the
CO~4ISSION MINUTES - 9/5/84 Page
P~RKINS~ balance -- really they probably would provide a little mere than
100% -- the balance being a secondary pledge of our franchise and utility
taxes to insure that if there's a shortfall in the revenue stream that the
bondholders will be paid. The underwriters are going to insist that that be
so or they're not going to underwrite the bonds.
WEISBURDs In other words ... That's why I wanted clarification. In other
words, the County is issuing the bonds, but we're supplementing a pledge that
if all of that is not taken care of, we still have to pay the rest? But not
with ad valorera, this is only utility and franchise?
PIM~KINSx Thatss correct. The County is issuing the bends based upon the
projected revenue stream from the tax, the 3¢ tax, and we're providing a
secondary pledge that in the event that that flow of revenue is insufficient
to meet the bond payments, that we would pledge franchise utility taxes.
WEISBURD: /tnd is this normal?
P~dtKINS: Oh, yes, sir.
REDFORDs Yes, very very seldom do any revenue bonds go out dollar for
dollar, very, very seldom. In fact, at 1.25%, it's pretty good. We've seen
them go as high as 1.4%, 1.5%. That's admittedly kind of high but I think
1.25% is just sort of anticipation of what we're going to be required to do
in any case.
P/~KKINS: Frankly, we were concerned it was going to be higher than that and
thought it might range as high as 1.4% or 1.5%.
REDFORD: Well, at one time when the bond interest was up very high that
couZd have been the case. It's coming down. It has been coming off a little
bit now and, incidentally, in the event, we have bad one event that's
happened to us now that/4oody's, which never used to take cognizance of
insurance. In other words, you could have a ~ bond with Standard and Poors
insured, but ~loody's would pay no attention to it and you could have a non-
rated bond, which made a strange dichotomy. Now, I understand that they're
going to take the insurance and give it a ~ Just as well as the Standard
and Pcors always have. So, that gives us a better mark on it if we have to
insure it, which I'm sure we may probably have to.
SHOCrd~-x': I might say, Vice Bayor Weisburd, that that was a significant
point that you touched on. It was negotiated back and forth with the County
and if you'll look at Page 4, underlined, you'll see that the Interlocal
/~greement recites that nothwithstanding the secondary pledge, the money will
not have to be escrowed or segregated or set aside and would only be called
upon in the event the City couldn't meet its obligation.
WEISBOBD: Insufficiency.
SHOCKETTz Yes, and this was something that was negotiated back and forth and
I think everybody's satisfied with that the way it is now.
WEISBUlqD: I just questioned it because I wasn't sure of what it meant.
SHOCKETTz Yes. I'd also like to Just, on behalf of my fellow Commissioners
and the citizens of ~!iami Beach, like to thank Commissioner Redford for all
of the time and effort that he has put into this project. Truthfully, the
County really doesn't gain that much by it. This is something which is being
done as an accommodation for the City. Wegre using the County as a vehicle
to fund this project, to get the convention facilities expanded, so that our
tax base can increase and we can hopefully reeve into a better economic
future. I can't tell you how many meetings Commissioner Redford has artended
and Icanet tell you how many campaign rallies or meetings hegs missed by
virtue of working on this. During the height of the campaign, his real
concern was about getting this through and I personally want to thank you
Just for your efforts in doing this and we are thrilled that we're getting
that kind of cooperation.
WEISBIY'~D: Commissioner Daoud.
C(Ne4ISSION~INUTES - 9/5/84 Page
DACKIDx Yes. First of all, I want to add my voice to it, Jim, to show
appreciation on behalf of the citizens and myself for the efforts you made to
help expand our Convention Center. I have one or two questions that I want
... and I guess, it probably would either go to the Administratio~ or Mr.
Shockerr or possibly to Commissioner Redford. As I understand, we get two-
thirds of the funds until our project is completed, in other words, until the
actual completion of the project as it's designated.
B~DFOED: No, you have it forever, for as long as you collect it. Now,
you're talking about 2¢ out of the 3C now?
DAOUD: Yes, sir.
REDFORD: All right. Now this 2~ out of the 3C goes as long as you want to
collect it. When the bonds are paid off, we, the County, are out of it. We
can even have a formal note-burning ceremony, if you want. I mean, the thing
is, we're out of it when you're paid off.
DAOUD: Because I was Just concerned about, that under the terms of the
Agreement, when the concept of the project was being completed~ as I
understand, and I have .. in the document it stated that the project as used
her,in shall be defined to mean the expansion of the Miami Beach Convention
Center to an overall size of not less than 788,900 square feet. And I just
wanted to clarify whether once that size was reached, that was then the
termination for the tax.
REDFORDz No, there's no termination of this tax whatsoever.
DAODD: So, in other words, the monies will still be coming in.
REDFORD: That"s right. Actually, as far as the 2¢ goes, we don"t ... it
was sort of like a lined colon. We don't get anything out of it at all. It
Just goes right through us. And, we have nothing to say about this at all.
This money goes to you~ it goes to you forever. And when you've paid off the
bonds, the money Just accrues to you and within the restrictions of the State
statutes, you can use it for what you want.
WEISBU'RD: Chris?
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY C~RIS KORGE: Good morning, Vice Mayor and members of
the Commission. My reading of the statute is that upon completion of the
expansion, extension, enlargement, of the convention facility, then the two-
thirds share would go to a second tier which would be to maintain, to build
other sports arenas, convention facilities. Now this Interlocal Agreement
defines project as -- in the second line of the exhibit it defines project
as= 'this definition of the 'project' is more fully described in the
Laventhol & Horwath study dated October 1982 entitled 'Evaluation of Market
Support and Operating Potentials for the alami Beach Convention Center"s.
What this means, as our Legal Department has interpreted it, is that upon
completion of this project, that is, the expansion which has been set out by
the Leventhol & Horwath report, our two-thirds share which is given to us by
virtue of the State law, would co longer be ... we are no longer clearly
entitled to that two-thirds portion.
REDFORD: Who would be then? We're not.
KORGE: Well, the State statute is ambiguous as to who is entitled to it. It
Just says that upon completion of the expansion, extension, enlargement, of
our Convention facility, that portion of the funds would go to the next tier.
It doesn't say who makes the decision as to wbe will use the money, but it
says that it will be used to build other facilities, sports arenas, or to be
used for operation and maintenance. It's not clear as to who has that
au thor i ty.
REDFORD: I'm not an attorney but I'll point out to you that nowhere in that
ordinance does it say, or in that statute, does it say that the County will
ever come in receipt of that
KORGE: That's true and nowhere in that statute does it say the City ...
CO~e4ZSSION MI~u'r~8 - 9/5/84 Page
SHOCKETT: Well, what do you want us to do? Change the State law?
KORGE= No, that is not ...
SHOCKETTz What is it that you propose?
KORGEz My suggestion is ~h~t the definition be written broadly so that if we
want to expand the Convention Center beyond what the Laventhol & Horwath
study has shown, that we are in a position that we can do it. As it stands
now, this project will be complete when the Laventhol & gorwath studied
expansion is done with.
8HOCKETT: Chris.
REDFORDZ Mr. Vice Mayor.
WEISBURD: . Yes.
REDFORDx We sat down, this is a business decision. It was a question of
future projects. We cannot commit the County Con~nission to future projects.
KORGE: I~m not asking you to.
REDFORD: Well, you are essentially asking because you're asking for
something else after this project is finished. Now, weere going to define
the project and issue the bonds for the project, you know, amongst ourselves.
When the project is paid off, that's it. If there's a defect in the State
law, well, by all means, let's revise the State law. But the County doesn't
come in for the 2~. The County is not going to fund any more bond issues.
They may, if you come around with another project, and it 1coks fine, weere
willing to go, but we cannot commit ourselves to any future projects
whatsoever. We are committing ourselves to this project. In the event there
are overruns, we're co~nitting ourselves to Completion Bonds so that they'll
be finished. We're co~nitting ourselves to a reserve fund so that in the
case of soma kind of a disaster, hurricane, fire, et cetera, that you can use
the reserve fund to bring the project back into operation again and that's as
far as our commitment on the County can go and any further conmitment would
be something that we have no authority to give and that is of doubtful
legality as far as the County's concerned.
SHOCKETT: Chris, you stated in the statute, or your interpretation of the
statute, that this money can be used to maintain the facility. Is that
correct?
KORGE: That is correct (inaudible, overlap) ...
SHOCKETT: So, then we're automatically ...
KORGE: ... second tier. When you get to the second tier.
SHOCKETT: Yes, after this is done. I mann, we only have plans for the
expansion as it exists now. Any future expansion is in somabody's dreams
right now. There is no plan, there's no design, there's nothing that I know
of that we're going to expand the facility any further. Let me finish,
because I artended a lot of these maetings, and in fact the idea of setting
up a reserve for repairs and replacements was my idea, not the City
Attorney's idea. And, the main concern of a business nature that we had for
operating this facility were -- two concerns. One, to get this thing built,
and to Jerk around and not get this thing through, to play with words, is
counterproductive to the City. The second, and I felt, most critical point,
involved, and I think you've answered it this morning, is that there is no
question that the convention facility is going to be operated at a loss.
Even if it were occupied 365 days of the year, it wnuld be operated at a
loss, and the big expense is going to come down in like three, four, five
years in maintenance of the facility. And we are guaranteed that we won't
run into the problema that we have now with a facility that deteriorates
because we don't have the funds to maintain it. At least we will have a flow
of funds to maintain this facility, to upgrade it, and to keep it as
somathing which people will want to use. So, that's my concern, and I think
COBe4ISSION MINUTES - 9/5/84 Page
SROCKETTz what you*re saying and what your position and, I think, you're
looking to get everything that you possibly can out of this a~xl thetis okay,
if you're entitled to it, and if lt~s reasonable and practical to receive it.
But, to sit here today an~ try and ask the County to comm{t tO something that
we may never ever do, we have no plans for it that I~m aware of, I heven"t
heard anything from the Administration, to say to the County commit today
that the definition of project means this project and any future expansions
and that the County would be obligated to bond this and go through this
procedure, I don"t think is fair. I don"t think it"s a fair business
request. I don~t think it~s a fair request for our partners across the Bay,
and I don't think lt's something which is going to help us get this facility
built. Now, if l"m wrong, and you can correct me if I~m wrong, this dcesn~t
mean or preclude us from expanding the facility again after this project is
finished through our own bonding.
KORGE: But, now, if I may ...
SBOCKETTz We don"t have tO do that.
KORGE: ... answer that question, that is my concern, exactly. You hit the
nail right on the head. My concern is that you have defined the expansion
and the project and as a lawyer, this is how our office has interpreted it,
to mean to the extent of the Laventhol & Borwath study. What Ivm saying is
... I"m not saying that the County by virtue of this agreement should be
required tO sell parity bonds or any other kind of bonds in the future. What
I~m saying is, if you limit the definition of a project, once the project is
completed, according to the statute, me are no longer entitled tO the two-
thirds share of the revenue. Thetis my point.
SHOCKETTz You said we are entitled tO it to maintain the facility.
KORGE: No, I did not. I said after the two-thirds share ...
SHOCKETT: Right.
KORGE: ... after we use that two-thirds share for expansion, then it goes
intO another category and it does not say who has control of that money . ..
SROCru~r~': But you said it could be used ...
KORGEz It could be but ...
SHOCKETT= Now, you"re changing your opinion.
WEISBURD: Mr. Korge, one second. Did you sign these documents? Did you
make them up and sign them?
KORGE= We got these documents late yesterday afternoon and we signed them as
to form. They are ... It is a contract.
WEISBU'Sl): Yes, but weren't you satisfied with it? I mean, why do you put
your name on something you"re not comfortable with?
KORGE: We"re not comfortable ...
SHOCKETT= There's no legal problem.
KORGE: There"s no legal probleme with it. I"m Just pointing out that you're
limiting the definition of what project is tO the Laventhol & Horwath report.
DAOUD~ Mr. Vice Mayor.
W~ISBURDz Comissioner Daoud.
DAOUDz If I could, please. I think what Mr. Korge is addressing is an issue
that should be brought at the table. Hess not saying that this agreement is
not good. Hees not taking any policy decision. All he*s doing as our
attorney -- I happen tO know him very well, because hess my cousin and I grew
up with him, helpe~ him get through Law Schcol, so I happen to know how good
CO~e4ISSIONMINUT~S - 9/5/84 Page
I~J~Dz he is in the sense of that ~ What I'm trying to point out is he's
Just bringing a point to us which I think is a good taken point. It's not a
reflection on Commissioner Redford. It's not a reflection on anyone. It's
Just the point, the fact that we have to understand what may happen or what
can be done after the standpoint of the expansion is. In other words, the
definition of what the cutoff point is on construction. And, I think it's a
very valid point. I think it's a very valid point, I think it's well-taken,
I think that it will give us incentives, hopefully, to work with our very
fine Commissioners so after we get the building completed, we can look to
other avenues to keep the areas open. But, I think this is the point we have
to look at. There's no one criticizing this agreement. What it is is an
explanation of furthering what we can do once our Convention Center is
expanded.
SHOCKETT: It~s ... Let me explain the position that we~ve reached and, in
~airness to ~lex, of course, he was not at the negotiation sessions. You
know, you can ask for anything. It doesn't mean that you're entitled to it
or the other party is going to give it to you. Now, this agreement has been
negotiated beck and forth. The County is not of the mind or the opinion to
define project the way Chris would like it defined. And, it's either we go
ahead with the project or we Just die in the water. ~nd, Chris has stated
right now, and it's a decision for us to make. It's not a legal point, it~s
a business point. There are several business points in this and there are
quite a few legal points. They have negotiated the legal points. This is a
business point. I am prepared at this time and I realize that we're not
getting everything.
Let me ask you a question. If the statute is vague, who's going to say
that we~d be entitled to funds for the expanded facility?
D~OUD: I don't understand the question.
SHOCKETT: What Chris is saying is that the State statute is vague in that it
doesn't define what happens after this project is completed. Okay? So, what
he~s trying to do is make sure that the City continues to receive the two-
thirds of the tax. Is that correct?
DAOUD: No, no. ~11 he was doing ...
SHOCKETTx I'm asking him.
DAOUD: No, no, because I asked the question. What he was doing was
referring to the question I had asked pointing out to the ~actor of what
happened after the expansion was completed.
SSOCKETT: I understand that. I've discussed this with Chris and I've sat in
meetings with him and I understand what he~s trying to do.
DAOUD: Billy, the point, all I want to say is, because I'm going to support
this agreement. I think it's a fantastic agreement, but I'm also very happy
that at least I know what is going to be done and what we can look forward
to. Thereds nothing wrong in asking for things. I'd love to go to the
County and ask for more. Thank God we've got a good Commissioner like
Redford that is responding to this. I mean, it's the Kmerican way to go and
ask. So, who knows? If we're told eno' once, you Just ask again. Consider
it like a first date. You know, you've got to go out and ask plenty of times
for things.
WEISBURD: ~ny more discussion on this Interlocal Agreeement?
D~OUDs Ieve been asking for 41 years i~ you want to know.
REDFORD: Well, let me Just put the County's position very clearly before
you. The County has okayed this Interlocal Agreement. There is a minor
change but it does not have to go hack because it isnet that substantive a
change. We're all set. Take the analogy if you're going to build a house
and you're going looking for a mortgage, which is precisely, pretty much,
what you're doing. You come to us and you want to borrow money. You present
your plans. They look over the plans. They measure it. They do all sorts
of things and they come up with the money. This is precisely what the case
CO!e4XSSXONJ4INUI'~S - 9/5/84 Page
REDFORD.* is here. You come to us with a project. You ask us to issue the
bonds. In the interest of the entire ~ommunity, not only of Miami Beach, but
the entire community, we feel it~s e desirable project, so me have said, on
the description of this project, we will issue bonds for it, we will issue
completion bonds, we will set up revenue things for you to help maintain
and so forth. If you want future enlargements of this thing, I*m sure if you
can show that there is a real need for it, that you're filling this place up,
that it~s really doing good for the community, me would go again, providing,
given all the cases, and all the quailfists. But the thing is to say, to
come in to say to us, well, all right, we want to have an assurance that
we're going to go to 750,000 feet instead of 500,000 feet is indeed asking us
for future projects. And me're saying to you, you want an expansion and
you're doing the business and you can demonstrate it, come on by and if I~m
still around, you~11 get it. I mean, at least one-ninth of it.
8o, I think me~re in a position now that this is the deal.
WEISBURD: Well, Commissioner Redford, according to this Exhibit "A" where it
says that we're talking about an overall size of not less than 788,900 square
feet, and then in the next sentence, it says, based on the project described
in Laventhol & Borwath report, if we're talking eventually to describe and
eventually build a million square feet, are you going to say, well, you going
to hold us to the Laventhol & Rorwath report?
REDFORD: We are only going to issue bonds for that which you're going to
build.
WEISBURD: Okay.
REDFORD: And then if you want to come in later, if you haven't repealed your
bond restriction ordinance at that time, you want to come in later after
you've paid it off, or even before, if they can make the arrangements, and
can show the need for it, I~m sure we'll ...
WEISBURD: You're talking expansion after the expansion?
REDFORD: Right.
WEISBURD: Okay, I can understand that.
REDFORD: This project now will be for the bond dollars put down and the
rough estimates that you've gotten from your staff on what it~s going to cost
to put on 250,000 odd square feet. And that~s what it is. And anything
beyond that, I mean, if thereds a defect in the State statute, by all means,
correct the State statute. But, this is the deal and October 3rd is the
hearing and, you know, this thing we want to have it on the shelf and we want
to be able to sell it the moment that we can.
REISBURD: Thank you very much. Benira Argos. State your name for the
record.
BENITA ARGOS: Mr. Vice Mayor, Commissioners, first of a11, Mr. Korge says
they got the agreement late yesterday. I also got the Commission package
yesterday because the day before was a holiday. In here it says to be
submitted. I haven't read this agreement and nothing is in here. The
Laventhol & Horwath report is not in here nor the interim agreement that
you're talking about. Now I find out, sitting and listening to this, that
we're going from 238,000 square feet, that we have now and have never been
able to sell properly, to something like 788,000 square feet. And, the State
law is not clear. And, me have a lot of little things here. I don't think
you can sign an agreement like this in a half a day and I think it needs a
lot more study and certainly the public has' to be informed because the reason
that you've gone to the County to ask them to sell these bonds is because
you're 1coking to circumvent our law that we have here where the voters must
approve anything over $250,000. And I think Miami ... Since you want to put
all kinds of amendments on the hallot for people or ordinances for people or
Charter changes for the citizens to vote, I also think they sbould~ve had the
privilege of voting for this.
Now, I~m going to ask everybody a good question. Miami Beach owns the
Miami Beach Convention Center and they owe the land that it sits on. The
COte4ISSlON MINUTES- 9/5/84 Page
aRGOS: County doesn't own that land. We do, here, this municipality. Now
how can the County sell bonds for something that they don't own? ~ then l
find out, by listening to this, you've got utility and sales taxes that would
be pledged ... I believe that was what was said before ... in case it didn't
pay for itself as a revenue-producing bond. And you know something,
gentlemen, there's ~een no demonstration shown to this day that that
Convention Center can be mold for what we have. Are we building a bigger
white elephant for maybe a handful of big projects that you think is going to
spur hotel construction? And I know, Mr. Grenald, you, tourism, tourism,
tourism. Well, there still is mome tourism. The Fontainebleau quietly has
fixed up their hotel very nicely without a lot of fanfare. They did the
Alexander. And, people are fixing and doing things on their own here. There
will be expansion and there will be construction if things are sold right and
theyere done right. ~nd I think this is very hasty. You have a thing on
here today, you're going to award momething. You're going to award a
contract to engineers and architects. I don't think this is the time to do
any of this.
WEISBURD= Would you, please, wind up.
ARGOS= I think itts time to study this and a half a day or a half a night is
no way to act on a contract that there may be a cloud over because of a State
statute. And, I~11 tell you, when the bonds come up, I~m going to present
that problem. I want to know how bonds can be sold on property that ...
WEISBURD: Okay, Mrs. Argos, thetees just one point I want to answer you.
The County is not selling bonds to circumvent anything that we can't do on
the Beach. The reason itts going through the County is because we feel, all
of us feel, that it's a County-wide project, it is a regional convention
center, and since everyone uses it, then everybody should pay for it. And
that's it.
ARGOS: Is everybody going to pay for the maintenance?
WEISBURD: They're going to pay for it, like everybody else.
SINGER: Mr. Vice Mayor, I~d be happy to move this. Contrary to Mrs. Argos'
statement that we haven't had an opportunity to review this, this contract is
either exact or substantially the same as the agreement that was given to us
over one month ago when this City Commission even had a special workshop
meeting, a whole day meeting on this issue. So, X don't want the public to
get the impression that this matter came before us a few hours ago, last
night when it was delivered, and we haven't had the opportunity to
deliberate. We've also had public hearings and workshops a~a have spent an
inordinate amount of time on this issue. I think the agreement that has been
developed is a phenomenal one, a step in the right direction, and I~d be
happy to move it.
DAOUD= 1'11 second it.
WEISBURD: Moved by Co~issioner Singer, seconded by Commissioner Daoud. All
those in favor say eayee.
CO~!~ISSIONERS = Aye.
WEISBURD: It passes unanimously. (Mayor Fromberg absent)
DAOUD~ Mr. Vice Mayor, if we could, I see Rev. Thompson. I think it might
be very appropriate now to invoke a little blessing and prayer before we
start.
WEISBURD: All right. Just for the record, I'd like to indicate that we took
a recess from the Redevelopment Agency meeting prior to C-4G.
PARKINSx Our thanks to Commissioner Redford again, if X may.
WEISBURDz Thank you very much for coming.
COr~4ISSION MINUteS - 9/5/84 Page
GRENALD: Com. issioner Redford, one of the newspapers said that we were
getting a divorce, now I think wesve got married and can have babies.
{laughter)
DAOUD: I'm glad you said get married first.
{meeting continues on next page)
CO~4ISSIONMIN~r~S - 9/5/84 Page
PP
/0
ITEM C-4G & Rg~OIM'HOB 0~' ~ CITY C01NISSIOII O!' ~ CI~ ~ ~ ~,
~~ ~ ~ OF ~ BY ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ OF
A~IO~: Resolution ~o. 84-178~1 Adopted~ authorizing execution o~
Interlocal A~reement with bade ~unty, Florida, pe~ta~ning
~un~y's issuance o~ Up tc GaO,000,000 special obligation
as well as ~letion ~nds a~ ~ddition~l ~nds ~or the
financing o~ e~nsicns ~nd ~p~ovements tc the Miami Be~ch
~onvention Center, ~ the assi9n~nt ~ Clty's 2/~'s share o~
Ccnvent~on Develop~nt Tax Bs security ~o~ ~he ~nds, with
utility service tax revenues a~ _ ~r~nchise ~ee$ as
~undi~9 source to pa~ p~incipal, p~emium, ff any, ~nd inte~es~
~nds; ~greemen~ ~ ~ e~ect~ve u~n execution and re~in
e~ect as long as ~ny ~nds ~e outstanding.
During discuss~on, Dade ~unty ~issioner Jams R~o~d u~9ed
approval o~ ~eement so the County can dr~ft the ~nd o~din~nce
~o~ ~i~st and second re~din9, which he anticipa~es will
9/18/84 and 10/2/84 ~espec~ivel~. He advised t~t ~he ~se on
the 3~ co~nt~-w~de Convention Developmen~ T~ will ~ heard
~he Super~ ~u~ cn 10/~/84.
~1~ see ~elated item
P~IHS: C~4G. ~e document is In the p~ocess now o~ being ~nded out
you. It h~s been app~cved b~ the City Attcrne~. A qu~ck ove~vi~ on the
document. ~issicne~ Shockerr has ~rked diligently on ~h~l~ c[ ~11 o~ us
in workin~ cn this document. Essentially, i~ ~ec~nizes tMt
D~de Coun~ is the bank, that them are issuing ~nds ~or the pur~se
assisting us in the e~nsion o~ the Convention Center. They have askS, and
we th~k it's ~easonable~ tha~ they ask, and we agree, tMt i~ we get
earnings, t~t is the ~evenue s~eam is greater th~ t~t requir~ ~or purely
debt service, other than an account o~ a reserve set up ~o~ o~ration and
~in~enan~ o~ ~eplacement, that ~ ~ay o~ the ~nds ~s q~ckly ~s ~ssible,
~nd that see~ like a reasonable ~eques~. ~ere ~s no im~ediment to
dis~ib~ion o~ tax. A~te~ the ~nds are paid, the continu~ ~1~ of the
t~-~h~ds cr t~ ~nts ~1~ to ~he City and ve ~lieve it's a
agr~nt. ~issioner ~ed[ord, d~d you w~n~ to ~ent on this?
~issicne~ Sh~kett I know has ...
D~E C~Y ~ISSlO~ J~ ~: Yes. ~t me ~irst ~ b~ck just
second. I wanted ~ just cla~i~y our action . ..
~IS~U~: State your ~me.
~DFO~: Yes. ~im RedUced, County ~iss~one~. Jus~ wanted to go b~ck,
just ~or ~ ~nt~ ~o~ ~our South ~each. ~s a ~tter o~ record, ~ ~ass~
yesterday o~ the basis o~ we ' ~e ~and~ther ~n9 in your ~x ~ncre~ntal
financing. We'~e doing t~t because there my ~ a f~ture determina~ion o~
h~ we'~e ~oin9 to g~ant c~ not ~ant t~x incremen~s in the ~utu~e.
we're 9rand~atherin9 you In as w~s a~ that's with a ~ ~9reements, and I'd
jus~ like to get tM~ par~ o~ ~he record ~c~use ~ Mve a nu~er
applic~t~ons whi~ my ~ p~cble~, not here, but on the ~inland.
~ this particular thing, I think ~his Inte~l~al Agreement ~s ~s~
im~r~ant. The passage of this is gown9 ~ pr~i~itate the ~nd ordin~nce.
I~ this is passed tod~y, I ' 11 be ~ble to 9~ i~ediately to cu~ legal
de~artmen~ and ~ will d~a~t the ~ ordinan~ which will ~ heard on
hea~ln~ Se~te~er lath and then the second and ~i~l hearing wuld ~ on the
first Tuesday, I guess ~hat's the ~ o~ ~ober, and ~t t~ tim, t~t is
the ~y be~c~e the Supreme Court he~s the ~se o~ ~he 3C tax. ~, the 3C
tax, o~ whl~ you're getting 2C ~nd 2C o~ l~ will ~ backing th~s particula~
p~oject, t~ case is on acceleration. It ~esn't seem as i~ it was
~cceler~t~, but, unfortunately part o~ ~he acceleration cam du~ing the
s~er vacation peril. 5o, it could ~, conceivably, t~t on the passage o~
CO~4ISSIONMINUTES - 9/5/84 Page
REDFORD: that ordinance and your acceptance of that, we could possibly, a
couple, three weeks, maybe even a little longer, but it could be quite soon
after that that you could begin your plans and so forth for the expansion.
So, therefore, it~s quite important that we really get to moving on this
thing and have it ready Just so in case it~s needed you can move quickly.
This is a very strange market, this whole bo.~ market. It~s been up and
down, all over the place. It~s really, essentially, moving sidewards, but in
a very wide range.
Now, this, you might call this Interlocal Agreement business decision.
We sat with Commissioner Shockerr, Mr. Parkins, and a number of other people,
bond counsel, your counsel, our counsel, and others. We~ve come up with this
decision. Essentially what it does, and I think that at one tim there were
two points of contention but they have been ironed out at least in the
committee that sat and negotiated this ... We have, and I want to make a
small correction, Mr. Parkins, we have set up a reserve fund, since last you
saw this thing. This reserve fund is not for conenon, everyday maintenance,
this is for in the event of a large disaster, a fire, a hurricane, or say an
explosion of a large air conditioner or something of this sort. We have no
objections to setting up a reserve fund so that can be taken care of. To
take care of any other concerns, we have also set up conditions where
Completion Bonds can be issued in the event there is an overrun in costs and
we will, and have in here, and will in the bond ordinance, a contingency to
that effect. So, if you start to run over on costs, we can issue Completion
Bonds.
The one thing that we have done, for two or three reasons, we have done
this business about if there are excess revenues, we want them to go to pay
off the bonds after the reserve fund has been fed, largely for two reasons,
one, of course, that this bonding is going to be a Dade County bond and it
will accrue towards our bonds. In other words, we have a certain number of
bonds that we really can issue as far as the underwriters are concerned, and
this counts towards that. So, the quicker we can get them retired, the
better off for us. However, we're glad to issue these bonds for you.
The other thing, also, is the marketability. We always coma back to
that. These bonds have got to be marketable and these bonds, convention
bonds, are a class -- and we have soma experts actually on Wall Street on
these type of bonds, and they're not the darlings of Wall Street, believe ma.
They have got to be made extremely marketable. We have to have a lot of
contingencies in there. We have to be flexible. We may have to do soma very
complicated types of financing to get this through. We're willing to do this
but the only contingency is that after, for the reserve funds, we would like
to see any excess funds, if there are any, go towards retiring of the bonds.
I ~ 11 answer any of your questions. We have attorneys from Fine,
Jacobson, who are the bend counsel for our particular side. We have Vicki
Jay who is our Assistant County Attorney who has been handling this issue.
Anything more technical than I brought up, they can answer.
WEISBURD: We have a speaker. Benita Argos, are you here? No? You've got
to keep up, we're going to move fast today.
VOICE: Here she is.
WEISBURD: Benita, you're speaking On C-4G? Good morning.
BENITA ARGOS= Good morning.
WEISBURD: I mean, we don~t want to waste your time.
REDFORD: DO you have any techical questions on this particular agreemant.
maan, I~m not going for it or against it, but actually on the agreement
itself, any questions?
WEISBURD: Well, before she gets up, I~11 tell you truthfully, I read this
about 1=30 in the morning and I was a little bleary eyed, but what is this
secondary pledge that the City has to comply with on our franchise and
utility fees?
PARKINS= In the interest of making the bonds more marketable, we were
advised that we would have to pledge in essence 125% of face value, the 100%
being made up from the flow of the revenues from the additional 2¢ tax, the
CO~R4ISSION MINUTES - 9/5/84 Page 3
PARKINS: balance -- really they probably would provide a little more than
100% -- the balance being a secondary pledge of our franchise and utility
taxes to insure that if there's a shortfall in the revenue stream that the
bondholders will be paid. The underwriters are going to insist that that be
so or they're not going to underwrite the bends.
WEISBURD: In other words ... That's why I wanted clarification. In other
words, the County is issuing the bonds, but we're supplementing a pledge that
if all of that is not taken care of, we still have to pay the rest? But not
with ad valorem, this is only utility and franchise?
PARKINS: That's correct. The County is issuing the bonds based upon the
projected revenue stream from the tax, the 3C tax, and we're providing a
secondary pledge that in the event that that flow of revenue is insufficient
to meet the bond payments, that we would pledge franchise utility taxes.
WEISBURD: And is this normal?
PARKINS: Oh, yes, sir.
REDFORD: Yes, very very seldom do any revenue bends go out dollar for
dollar, very, very seldom. In fact, at 1.25%, lt's pretty good. We~ve seen
them go as high as 1.4%, 1.5%. That's admittedly kind of high but I think
1.25% is just sort of anticipation of what we're going to be required to do
in any case.
PARKINS: Frankly, we were concerned it was going to be higher than that and
thought it might range as high as 1.4% or 1.5%.
REDFORD: Well, at one time when the bond interest was up very high that
could have been the case. It's coming down. It has been coming off a little
bit now and, incidentally, in the event, we have had one event that~s
happened to us now that Moody's, which never used to take cognizance of
insurance. In other words, you could have a AAA bond with Standard and Pcors
insured, but Moody's would pay no attention to it and you could have a non-
rated bond, which made a strange dichotomy. Now, I understand that they're
going to take the insurance and give it a AAA just as well as the Standard
and Poors always have. So, that gives us a better mark on it if we have to
insure it, which I'm sure we may probably have to.
SHOCKETT: I might say, Vice Mayor Weisburd, that that was a significant
point that you touched on. It was negotiated back and forth with the County
and if you'll look at Page 4, underlined, you'll see that the Interlocal
Agreement recites that nothwithstanding the secondary pledge, the money will
not have to be escrowed or segregated or set aside and would only be called
upon in the event the City couldn't meet its obligation.
WEISBURD: Insufficiency.
SHOCKETT: Yes, and this was something that was negotiated back and forth and
I think everybody's satisfied with that the way it is now.
WEISBURD: I just questioned it because I wasn't sure of what it meant.
SHOCKETT: Yes. I'd also like to just, on behalf of my fellow Comissioners
and the citizens of Miami Beach, like to thank Commissioner Redford for all
of the time and effort that he has put into this project. Truthfully, the
County really doesn't gain that much by it. This is something which is being
done as an acco~uodation for the City. We're using the County as a vehicle
to fund this project, to get the convention facilities expanded, so that our
tax base can increase and we can hopefully move into a better economic
future. I can't tell you how many meetings Comissioner Redford has attended
and I can't tell you how many campaign rallies or meetings he's missed by
virtue of working on this. During the height of the campaign, his real
concern was about getting this through and I personally want to thank you
Just for your efforts in doing this and we are thrilled that we're getting
that kind of cooperation.
WEISBURD: Con~nissioner Daoud.
COBe4ISSIONMINUTES - 9/5/84 Page 4
DAOUDz Yes. First of all, I want to add my voice to it, Jim, to show
appreciation on behalf of the citizens and myself for the efforts you made to
help expand our Convention Center. I have one or two questions that I want
... and I guess, it probably would either go to the Administration or Mr.
Shockett or possibly to Commissioner Redford. AS I understand, we get two-
thirds of the funds until our project is completed, in other words, until the
actual completion of the project as it~s designated.
REDFORD: No, you have it forever, for as long as you collect it. Now,
you're talking about 2¢ out of the 3¢ now?
DAOUDz Yes, sir.
REDF~RD~ All right. Now this 2¢ out of the 3¢ goes as long as you want to
collect it. When the bonds are paid off, we, the County, are out of it. We
can even have a formal note-burning ceremony, if you want. I mean, the thing
is, we're out of it when you're paid off.
DAOUD: Because I was just concerned about, that under the terms of the
Agreement, when the concept of the project was being completed~ as T
understand, and I have .. in the document it stated that the project as used
herein shall be defined to mean the expansion of the Miami Beach Convention
Center to an overall size of not less than 788,900 square feet. And I just
wanted to clarify whether once that size was reached, that was then the
termination for the tax.
REDFORD: No, thereds no termination of this tax whatsoever.
DAOUD: SO, in other words, the monies will still be coming in.
REDFORD: That~s right. Actually, as far as the 2¢ goes, we donet ... it
was sort of like a lined colon. We don't get anything out of it at all. It
just goes right through us. And, we have nothing to say about this at all.
This money goes to you~ it goes to you forever. And when you've paid off the
bonds, the money just accrues to you and within the restrictions of the State
statutes, you can use it for what you want.
WEISBURD: Chris?
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY CHRIS KORGE: Good morning, Vice Mayor and members of
the Con~nission. My reading of the statute is that upon completion of the
expansion, extension, enlargement, of the convention facility, then the two-
thirds share would go to a second tier which would be to maintain, to build
other sports arenas, convention facilities. Now this Interlocal Agreement
defines project as -- in the second line of the exhibit it defines project
as: 'this definition of the tproject' is more fully described in the
naventhol & Horwath study dated October 1982 entitled 'Evaluation of Market
Support and Operating Potentials for the Miami Beach Convention Center".
What this means, as our Legal Department has interpreted it, is that upon
completion of this project, that is, the expansion which has been set Out by
the Laventhol & Borwath report, our two-thirds share which is given to us by
virtue of the State law, would no longer be ... we are no longer clearly
entitled to that two-thirds portion.
REDFORD: Who would be then? We're not.
KORGE: Well, the State statute is ambiguous as to who is entitled to it.
just says that upon completion of the expansion, extension, enlargement, of
our Convention facility, that portion of the funds would go to the next tier.
It doesn't say who makes the decision as to who will use the money, but it
says that it will be used to build other facilities, sports arenas, or to be
used for operation and maintenance. It's not clear as to who has that
authority.
REDFORD: I"m not an attorney but Itll point out to you that nowhere in that
ordinance dons it say, or in that statute, does it say that the County will
ever coma in receipt of that 2¢.
KORGE: That"s true and nowhere in that statute does it say the City ...
COr44ISSIONMII~J'r~S - 9/5/84 Page
SBOCKETT= Well, what do you want us to do? Change the State law?
KORGE: No, that is not ...
SBOCKETTz What is it that you propose?
KORGE: My suggestion is that the definition be written broadly so that if we
want to expand the Convention Center beyond what the Laventhol & Horwath
study has shown, that we are in a position that we can do it. As it stands
now, this project will be complete when the Laventhol & Horwath studied
expansion is done with.
SHOCKETT: Chris.
REDFORD: Mr. Vice Mayor.
WEISBURD: Yes.
REDFORD: We sat down, this is a business decision. It was a question of
future projects. We cannot commit the County Co~nnission to future projects.
KORGE: I~m not asking you to.
REDFORD: Well, you are essentially asking because you're asking for
something else after this project is finished. NOw, we're going to define
the project and issue the bonds for the project, you know, amongst ourselves.
When the project is paid off, that's it. If thereds a defect in the State
law, well, by all means, let's revise the State law. But the County doesn't
come in for the 2~. The County is not going to fund any more bond issues.
They may, if you come around with another project, and it looks fine, we're
willing to go, but we cannot commit ourselves to any future projects
whatsoever. We are conehitting ourselves to this project. In the event there
are overruns, we're committing ourselves to Completion Bonds so that they'll
be finished. We're committing ourselves to a reserve fund so that in the
case of some kind of a disaster, hurricane, fire, et cetera, that you can use
the reserve fund to bring the project back into operation again and that's as
far as our commitment on the County can go and any further commitment would
be something that we have no authority to give and that is of doubtful
legality as far as the County's concerned.
SHOCKETT: Chris, you stated in the statute, or your interpretation of the
statute, that this money Can be used to maintain the facility. Is that
correct?
KORGE: That is correct (inaudible, overlap) ...
SBOCKETT: So, then we're automatically ...
KORGE: ... second tier. When you get to the second tier.
SHOCKE~T: Yes, after this is done. I mean, we only have plans for the
expansion as it exists now. Any future expansion is in somebody's dreams
right now. There is no plan, thereds no design, thereds nothing that I knOw
of that we're going to expand the facility any further. Let me finish,
because I attended a lot of these meetings, and in fact the idea of setting
up a reserve for repairs and replacements was my idea, not the City
Attorneyts idea. And, the main concern of a business nature that we had for
Operating this facility were -- two concerns. One, to get this thing built,
and to jerk around and not get this thing through, to play with words, is
counterproductive to the City. The second, and I felt, most critical point,
involved, and I think you've answered it this morning, is that there is no
question that the convention facility is going to be operated at a loss.
Even if it were occupied 365 days of the year, it would be operated at a
loss, and the big expense is going to come down in like three, four, five
years in maintenance of the facility. And we are guaranteed that we won't
run into the problems that we have now with a facility that deteriorates
because we don't have the funds to maintain it. At least we will have a flow
of funds to maintain this facility, to upgrade it, and to keep it as
something which people will want to use. So, that's my concern, and I think
CO~4ISSION MINUTES - 9/5/84 Page 6
SBOCKETT: what you're saying and what your position and, I think, you're
looking to get everything that you possibly can out of this and that's okay,
if you're entitled to it, and if it's reasonable and practical to receive it.
But, to sit here today and try and ask the County to commit to something that
we may never ever do, we have no plans for it that I'm aware of, I haven't
heard anything from the Administration, to say to the County commit today
that the definition of project means this project and any future expansions
and that the County would ha obligated to bond this and go through this
procedure, I don't think is fair. I don't think it's a fair business
request. I don't think it's a fair request for our partners across the Bay,
and I don't think it's something which is going to help us get this facility
built. Now, if I'm wrong, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, this doesn't
mean or preclude us from expanding the facility again after this project is
finished through our own bonding.
KORGE: But, now, if I may ...
SHOCKETT: We don't have to do that.
KORGE: ... answer that question, that is my concern, exactly. You hit the
nail right on the head. My concern is that you have defined the expansion
and the project and as a lawyer, this is how our office has interpreted it,
to mean to the extent of the Laventhol & morwath study. What I'm saying is
... I'm not saying that the County by virtue of this agreement should be
required to sell parity bonds or any other kind of bonds in the future. What
I'm saying is, if you limit the definition of a project, once the project is
completed, according to the statute, we are no longer entitled to the two-
thirds share of the revenue. That's my point.
SHOCKETT: You said we are entitled to it to maintain the facility.
KORGE: NO, I did not. I said after the two-thirds share ...
SHOCKETT: Right.
KORGE: ... after we use that two-thirds share for expansion, then it goes
into another category and it does not say who has control of that money . ..
SHOCKETT: But you said it could be used ...
KORGE: It could ha but ...
SHOCKETT: Now, you're changing your opinion.
WEISBURD: Mr. Korge, one second. Did you sign these documents? Did you
make them up and sign them?
KORGE: We got these documents late yesterday afternoon and we signed them as
to form. They are ... It is a contract.
WEISBURD: Yes, but weren't you satisfied with it? I mean, why do you put
your name on something you're not comfortable with?
KORGE: We're not comfortable ...
SHOCKETT: There's no legal problem.
KORGE: There's no legal problems with it. I'm just pointing out that you're
limiting the definition of what project is to the Laventhol & Horwath report.
DAOUD: Mr. Vice Mayor.
WEISBURD: Con~nissioner Daoud.
DAOUD: If I could, please. I think what Mr. Korge is addressing is an issue
that should ha brought at the table. He's not saying that this agreement is
not good. He's not taking any policy decision. All he's doing as our
attorney -- I happen to know him very well, because he's my cousin and I grew
up with him, helped him get through Law School, so I happen to know how good
COfe4ISSION MINUTES - 9/5/84 Page 7
DAOOD: he is in the sense of that -- What I'm trying to point out is he's
Just bringing a point to us which I think is a good taken point. It's not a
reflection on Connissioner Redford. It's not a reflection on anyone. It's
Just the point, the fact that we have to understand what my happen or what
can be done after the standpoint of the expansion is. In other words, the
definition of what the cutoff point is on construction. And, X think it's a
very valid point. I think it's a very valid point, I think it's well-taken,
I think that it will give us incentives, hopefully, to work with our very
fine Comnissioners so after we get the building completed, we can lock to
other avenues to keep the areas open. But, I think this is the point we have
to lock at. There's no one Criticizing this agreement. What it is is an
explanation of furthering what we can do once our Convention Center is
expanded.
SHOCKETT: It's ... Let me explain the position that we've reached and, in
fairness to Alex, of course, he was not at the negotiation sessions. You
know, you can ask for anything. It doesn't mean that you're entitled to it
or the other party is going to give it to you. NOw, this agreement has been
negotiated hack and forth. The County is not of the mind Or the Opinion to
define project the way Chris would like it defined. And, it's either we go
ahead with the project or we just die in the water. And, Chris has stated
right now, and it's a decision for us to make. It's not a legal point, it's
a business point. There are several business points in this and there are
quite a few legal points. They have negotiated the legal points. This is a
business point. I am prepared at this time and I realize that we're not
getting everything.
Let me ask you a question. If the statute is vague, who's going to say
that we'd be entitled to funds for the expanded facility?
DAOUD: I don't understand the question.
SHOCKETT: What Chris is saying is that the State statute is vague in that it
doesn't define what happens after this project is completed. Okay? So, what
he's trying to do is make sure that the City continues to receive the two-
thirds of the tax. Is that correct?
DAOUD= NO, no. All he was doing ...
SHOCKETT: I'm asking him.
DAOUD.' No, no, because I asked the question. What he wee doing was
referring to the question I had asked pointing out to the factor of what
happened after the expansion was completed.
SHOCKETT: I understand that. I've discussed this with Chris and I've sat in
meetings with him and I understand what he's trying to do.
DAOUD: Billy, the point, all I want to say is, because I'm going to support
this agreement. I think it's a fantastic agreement, but Itm also very happy
that at least I know what is going to be done and what we can lock forward
to. There's nothing wrong in asking for things. I'd love to go to the
County and ask for more. Thank God we've got a good Commissioner like
Redford that is responding to this. I mean, it's the American way to go and
ask. So, who knows? If we're told sno' once, you just ask again. Consider
it like a first date. You know, you've got to go out and ask plenty of times
for things.
WEISBURD: Any more discussion on this Interlocal Agreeement?
DAOUD: I've been asking for 41 years if you want to know.
REDFORD: Well, let me Just put the County's position very clearly before
you. The County has okayed this Interlocal Agreement. There is a minor
change but it does not have to go back because it isn't that substantive a
change. We're all set. Take the analogy if you're going to build a house
and you're going locking for a mortgage, which is precisely, pretty much,
what you're doing. You come to us and you want to borrow money. You present
your plans. They lock over the plans. They measure it. They do all sorts
of things and they coma up with the money. This is precisely what the case
CO~IqISSION MINUTES - 9/5/84 Page 8
REDFORD: is here. You come to us with a project. You ask us to issue the
bonds. In the interest of the entire co~uunity, not only of Miami Beach, but
the entire connnunity, we feel it's a desirable project, so we have said, on
the description of this project, we will issue bonds for it, we will issue
completion bonds, we will set up revenue things for you to help maintain it,
and so forth. If you want future enlargements of this thing, I'm sure if you
can show that there is a real need for it, that you're filling this place up,
that lt's really doing good for the co~uunity, we would go again, providing,
given all the cases, and all the quailfists. But the thing is to say, to
come in to say to us, well, all right, we want to have an assurance that
we're going to go to 750,000 feet instead of 500,000 feet is indeed asking us
for future projects. And we're saying to you, you want an expansion and
you're doing the business and you can demonstrate it, come on by and if Itm
still around, you'll get it. I mean, at least one-ninth of it.
So, I think we're in a position now that this is the deal.
WEISBURD: Well, Col~nissioner Redford, according to this Exhibit sA' where it
says that we're talking about an overall size of not less than 788,900 square
feet, and then in the next sentence, it says, based on the project described
in Laventhol & Horwath report, if we're talking eventually to describe and
eventually build a million square feet, are you going to say, well, you going
to hold us to the Laventhol & Rorwath report?
REDFORD: We are only going to issue bonds for that which you're going to
build.
WEISBURD: Okay.
REDFORD: And then if you want to come in later, if you haven't repealed your
bond restriction ordinance at that time, you want to Coma in later after
you've paid it Off, Or even before, if they can make the arrangements, and
can show the need for it, I'm sure we~ll ...
WEISBURD: You're talking expansion after the expansion?
REDFORD: Right.
WEISBURD: Okay, I can understand that.
REDFORD: This project now will be for the bond dollars put down and the
rough estimates that you've gotten from your staff on what it's going to cost
to put on 250,000 odd square feet. And that~s what it is. And anything
beyond that, I mean, if there's a defect in the State statute, by all means,
correct the State statute. But, this is the deal and October 3rd is the
hearing and, you know, this thing we want to have it on the shelf and we want
to be able to sell it the moment that we can.
WEISBURD: Thank you very much. Benita Argos. State your name for the
record.
BENITA ARGOS: Mr. Vice Mayor, Comaissioners, first of all, Mr. Korge says
they got the agreement late yesterday. I also got the Commission package
yesterday because the day before was a holiday. In here it says to be
submitted. I haven't read this agreement and nothing is in here. The
Laventhol & Rorwath report is not in here nor the interim agreement that
you're talking about. Now I find out, sitting and listening to this, that
we're going from 238,000 square feet, that we have now and have never been
able to sell properly, to something like 788,000 square feet. And, the State
law is not clear. And, we have a lot of little things here. I don't think
you can sign an agreement like this in a half a day and I think it needs a
lot more study and certainly the public has to be informed because the reason
that you've gone to the County to ask them to sell these bonds is because
you're looking to circumvent our law that we have here where the voters must
approve anything over $250,000. And I think Miami ... Since you want to put
all kinds of amendments on the ballot for people or ordinances for people or
Charter changes for the citizens to vote, I also think they shoulders had the
privilege of voting for this.
Now, I'm going to ask everybody a good question. Miami Beach owns the
Miami Beach Convention Center and they own the laed that it sits on. The
COre4ISSIONMINUTES - 9/5/84 Page 9
ARGOS: County doesn't own that land. We do, here, this municipality. Now
how can the County sell bends for something that they don't own? An~ then I
find out, by listening to this, you've got utility and sales taxes that would
be pledged ... I believe that was what was said before ... in case it didn't
pay for itself as a revenue-producing bend. And you know something,
gentlemen, there ' s been no demonstrat ion shown to th is ~ay that that
Convention Center can be sold for what we have. Are We building a bigger
white elephant for maybe a handful of big projects that you think is going to
spur hotel construction? And I know, Mr. Grenald, you, tourism, tourism,
tourism. Well, there still is some tourism. The Fontainebleau quietly has
fixed up their hotel very nicely without a lot of fanfare. They did the
Alexander. And, people are fixing and doing things on their own here. There
will be expansion and there will be construction if things are sold right and
they're done right. And I think this is very hasty. You have a thing on
here today, you're going to award something. You're going to award a
contract to engineers and architects. I don't think this is the time to do
any of this.
NEISBURD: Would you, please, wind up.
ARGOS: I think it~s time to study this and a half a day or a half a night is
no way to act on a contract that there may be a cloud over because of a State
statute. And, I~ll tell you, when the bends come up, I~m going to present
that problem. I want to know how bends can be sold on property that ...
W~ISBURD: Okay, Mrs. Argos, therets just one point X want to answer you.
The County is not selling bends to circumvent anything that We can't do on
the Beach. The reason it's going through the County is because we feel, all
of us feel, that it~s a County-wide project, it is a regional convention
center, and since everyone uses it, then everybody should pay for it. And
thatts it.
ARGOS: Is everybody going to pay for the maintenance?
WEISBURD: Theytre going to pay for it, like everybody else.
SINGER: Mr. Vice Mayor, I'd be happy to move this. Contrary to Mrs. Argost
statement that we haven't had an opportunity to review this, this contract is
either exact or substantially the same as the agreement that was given to us
over one month ago when this. City Commission even had a special workshop
meeting, a whole day meeting on this issue. So, I don't want the public to
get the impression that this matter came before us a few hours ago, last
night when it was delivered, and We haven't had the opportunity to
deliberate. We've also had public hearings and workshops and have spent an
inordinate amount of time on this issue. I think the agreement that has been
developed is a phenomenal one, a step in the right direction, and I'd be
happy to move it.
DAOUD: Itll second it.
WEISBURD: Moved by Commissioner Singer, seconded by Co~issioner Daoud. All
those in favor say wayem.
C(B~4ISSIONERS: Aye.
WEISBURD= It passes unanimously. (Mayor Fromberg absent)
DAOUD: Mr. Vice Mayor, if We could, I s'ee Rev. Thompson. I think it might
be very appropriate now to invoke a little blessing and prayer before we
start.
WEISBURD: All right. Just for the record, I~d like to indicate that we took
a recess from the Redevelopment Agency meeting prior to C-4G.
PARKINS: OUr thanks to Commissioner Redford again, if I may.
WEISBURD= Thank you very much for coming.
CO~e4ISSION MINUTES - 9/5/84 Page 10