Loading...
LTC 190-2004 Design Review Board Decision - DRB File 17666 (7100 Fisher Island - Palazzo Del Mar) CITY OF MIAMI BEACH Office of the City Manager Letter to Commission No. 190-2004 m To: Mayor David Dermer and Members of the City Commission Date: July 22,2004 From: Jorge M. Gonzalez \~.. .~. City Manager IV D DESIGN REVIEW ARD DECISION. DRB FILE 17666 (7100 Fisher Island . Palazzo Del Mar) - Subject: Transmittal of transcript of the DRB hearing of the April 20, 2004 A transcript of the DRB hearing held on May 18, 2004 was transmitted to the Mayor and City Commission via LTC 170-2004. Attached is the transcript of the DRB hearing held on April 20, 2004. JMG\REP c: Jorge Gomez, Planning Director Murray Dubbin, City Attorney F:\CLER\CLER\FORMS\7100 Fisher Island Drive.ltc.doc ''ll '-!f1 ~ I,IWJl" I 11'- ..::J v .J.~ ',) "'" J .. . ..~ __.1 ',-' ,....~ ..;,. i .....; IS :2 ["id Z Z -JiW '10 --j -3 "I....' '~l " U ~ 1\ :")~{':J LAW OFFICES SHUBIN & BASS PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION VIA HAND DELIVERY July 22, 2004 ( ) c> ...~... ..s;:"' .......... .' ~ .. .' " r,.) .-....; , .; .-:i;.'~ f"..) - - . .. (f: . , "'r. f\..) (-) ("J :-r-, CO Mr. Robert Parcher City Clerk City of Miami Beach 1700 Convention Center Drive Miami Beach, Florida 33139 Re: Transcripts of DRB Proceedings Dear Mr. Parcher: Pursuant to your telephone conference wi th my office yesterday, please find attached copies of both the April 20, 2004 and the May 18, 2004 Design Review Board proceedings. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me or my staff at the below-referenced telephone number. Esq. Ene. cc: Gary Held, Esq. Cliff Schulman, Esq. , 46 S.W. 1st Street, 3rd Floor, Miami, FL 33130 Ph: 305-381-6060 Fx: 305-381-9457 www.shubinbass.com 'Co 12 .14- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Design Review Board Meeting Miami Beach City Hall 1700 Convention Center Drive Miami Beach, Florida Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:30 a.m. c AY IN ATTENDANCE Gregory Neville,'Chairman Janet Grant HYman Steveteft6n ~ike. Steff.Eans Peter Chevalier Gary Knight -RalphChoeff ~.Williarn-Cary .:CI iff.SchulI;Ilan ,t.sq. Jeffrey Bass, Esq. Thomas R. Mooney, ATCP Gary Held, Esq.-- Assistant ~i r-, J ~~\. City Attorney H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktrnan, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 ,':" ~, " :.. , .~,-) .- I !.") "," ~". . ,"'.j. ~. _.~~ ,:: -:,' ~. I' -: J .'.' :._ r1 (" \7>3 :. ,1 .:.:.~ '.:~ , ;... -' " ~:~ i ',", . ",. , . ::. ~- ,- )::.1 : .-(~ ,~" J.,.c' r i ,.:,,: 1.; '-_': ;',~ _~. J. -: i_ ~:-:; n": (~\ 1 ~ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 2 1 (Thereupon, the following proceedings were 2 had: ) 3 MR. MOONEY: Okay. The next application 4 is DRB file number 17666, 7100 Fisher Island 5 Drive, which is Palazzo del Mar, and the 6 applicant, I believe, is ready. 7 Cliff, you guys are ready, right? MR ."SCHULMAN: Yes. jj- . ,-'~/-... 1 MR. MOONEY'::i The applicant is requesting :L. , 1"1' " . ~ des+'g~revi~~ approval for the construction of':. !..-. r" I i an ii.--'$'t-or,~: ,mul ti-fatnily residential buildind .;', ~ ..,':' i ',' ; " . ". .__ L , " ." j I , ! 'c' , . :.. :- L 'A ,s"lrn:l,!lar application was approved by the . '. \.... I. , . ' pe's~hrn'- ,J:{,e.yre~w, ~.oard of two years ago. The, ~:', '~,-,-/ n- ,_:"f 3:1 i app,tiCarit, h:as brought back a slightly different~. red$signedver'sion of that. project and the ~ ..-:- . '~;':" 16 architect will go into more details relative ito 17 the:changes that they have made in the overall 18 designs. 19 Staff does not object to this particular 20 project as it is consistent with the established 21 architectural form on Fisher Island. We have 22 recommended that this application be approved 23 subject to the conditions enumerated in the 24 staff report. 25 MR. NEVILLE: Okay. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ,10 ; 3 MR. SCHULMAN: Mr. Chairman, members of the board, my name is Cliff Schulman. I am an attorney with offices at 1221 Brickell Avenue representing the applicant today; and at least for some of you, I am sure, this is deja vu all over again. In other words, we were previously before this board as Tom mentioned. I know Mike was on the board.. I know Fred was on the. bo~rd. , 1.' m. i;lotsure:_ df others were. j '-', !. . ; :. ;Theihistory ;bf Fisher Island needs a'-'li ~tle if, , ...' 't 11, - hit of an explanation, for some 'of the membersof:- the board.who were 'not here the last time! . arid >'.. ~.; 12 13: 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 . i ; i pe-rmission, Mr. Chai.rman, Fisher / unusual in many respects. Can you: I , hearime with this? Is this working? 'For the members of the board who were here the last time I apologize for repeating myself, but it's been a few years. For those that have not been here before, Fisher Island is unique in a number of ways. It is a portion of the City of Miami Beach. In point of fact, it was originally the south tip of Miami Beach until 1906. Approximately 15 acres of Fisher Island was, in fact, the south tip of Miami Beach until the dredging of Government Cut, which was done H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 4 1 in 1906. 2 However, the rest of the island is in the 3 unincorporated area save and except for the 4 approximately 17 acres, which is basically right 5 on Government Cut, and it's inhabited by a 6 building called Villa del Mare, which we will 7 hear' more about in a few moments, which is .8 wi th~n the municipality boundary of the City of , 9 Miami Beach. . i '10 i'In those years, when you dredged:a chanrlel, '.1 '....11 : I I you had a waste. It was spoil. Okay~ It was i :the tlredgedmaterialsthat came out of the 12 ,. .:. , . .13 bottpm, and.- Fisher Island, in point of fact, .220 acre~ of it is basically made up of the ! 14 15: subs~antially the spoil from the dredging of ; 16 Gove~nment Cut. And that's why the remainder 17 the island, other than this, is in the 18 unincorporated area of Dade County. 19 In point of fact, it was ousted from the 20 jurisdiction of the City of Miami Beach in about 21 1956 by its previous owners. 22 In 1989 this portion of the island had a 23 history of being owned by the United States 24 government originally used for some of the port 25 pilots who used to dock some of their vessels in H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 5 1 this area and go out to meet the ships off 2 Government Cut. Subsequently it was turned over 3 to the University of Miami Rosensteil School of 4 Marine Science and in 1989 was acquired by 5 developers of the Fisher Island. 6 At that point in time this particular 7 parcel was zoned by the City of Miami Beach 8 RM-PRD, planned residential community, 9 resiidential multi family. 10 At that particular point the zoning on it 11 allowed a 2.0 floor area ratio for the entire 12 site, which has subsequently been reduced to 1.6 13 floor area ratio. 14 In 1989 this board, a predecessor of "this 15 board, in fact approved the Villa del Mare, 16 which is presently existing at the tip, the 17 easternmost tip of Fisher Island. 18 And so the island itself still has left 19 within the City of Miami Beach approximately 12 20 acres, and the building which we brought before 21 you in 2001 was basically sited in this 22 particular site. 23 In 2001 we had a number of hearings. In 24 point of fact, we had six hearings, two of which 25 were continued, four of which went ad infinitum. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner -Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 6 1 They went on in July 11, 2001; October 16; 2 November 20; and eventually the project was 3 approved by this board on January 15, 2002. 4 The original project that we brought to you 5 had four buildings on that 12 acres. Eventually 6 the final design was for one building on 12 7 ac~es, with future buildings to be brought back 8 to this board on a case-by-case basis. 9 There was opposition, as there will be 10 today, before the board back in 2001 and 2002, 11 and they were the residents of Villa del Mare. 12 And you will be hearing from them, I am sure; 13 But these residents who basically bought in that 14 particular building came before this board and 15 paid in the range of $2 million for their units, 16 and they indicated that they didn't like 17 Mediterranean design any more. They thought 18 that the design that we brought before the board 19 was boring and monotonous. They felt it was too 20 massive. 21 Nonetheless, this board after these four 22 hearings and over 300 pages of testimony 23 approved the matter, and an appeal was taken to 24 the city commission. 25 The city commission again approved the H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 7 1 decision of this board. We were taken to court 2 on that, the circuit court appellate division. 3 The circuit court upheld this board, and we are 4 now on appeal in the third year to the district 5 court of appeal and that matter is still 6 pending. 7 For purposes of the record, I would like to 8 enter into the record the proceedings before 9 this board before the city commission, before 10 the circuit court, before the District Court of 11 Appeal, and I hand this to the clerk for the 12 record. (Indicating. ) 13 .Just for the record, Mr. Bass indicated he 14 had no objection to entering that into the 15 record. He just thought it would be heavier. I 16 Otherwise, I would have brought it in on a 17 wheelie. 18 Today's proposal is somewhat different than 19 the one that was before you in 2001 in some 20 substantial ways. The project you approve and 21 the building you approved in 2001 had 46 units. 22 This proposal has 34 units, which is a 26 23 percent reduction in the number of units. 24 The building we brought before you in 2001 25 had approximately 250,0000 square feet of H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 8 1 residential floor area. The building before you 2 has 197,000 square feet, or a 21 percent 3 reduction in that. 4 The floor plate which this board, which I 5 will show in you a moment, approved was 6 basically substantially larger; and in point of 7 fact, if you compare the floor plate to our 8 nearest neighbor, Villa del Mare, their floor 9 plate is 35,000 square feet, and this floor 10 plate is 19,000 square feet. 11 In order to try to picture the changes from 12 the last building to the present building, we 13 tried to do so rapidly. The orange outline that I 14 you see is a building that was approved by this 15 board in 2002 after those hearings. 16 The gray footprint that you see here is the 17 building which we bring to you today, and our 18 architect will explain the rhyme and reason why ! 19 the footprint has changed so and has been 20 reduced so. And that is basically response to 21 market conditions. 22 MR. MOONEY: Cliff, I don't think that 23 microphone is working. 24 MR. SCHULMAN: But for purposes of a 25 comparison also, we thought it would be H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 9 1 important to show you, because you will be 2 hearing from them, the difference between this 3 building and other buildings on the island, as 4 you can see in The Clusters, including Villa del 5 Mare. 6 So what we did is we took our floor plan, 7 and we superimposed it over the Villa del Mare 8 site plan and floor plan of our nearest 9 neighbor; and as you can see, the building which 10 we bring to you today is substantially less than 11 the building of even our closest neighbor. And I 12 that is shown in even more graphically when we ( {. 13 will look -- again, on the floor plan that was 14 previously approved. This is Villa del Mare, 15 16 17 18 19 20 which is the one on the easternmost tip of the island. I previously approved by this board, and now you This is the building that was can see the building. Now one important factor was we wanted to make sure we had more than adequate, if not 21 generous, separations between ourselves and our 22 neighbors. 23 During that the course of those four 24 hearings our building moved in 2001, 2002 from 25 75 feet tower to tower to eventually 166 feet H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 { \ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 tower to tower. And that distance is basically shown here, and the project which we bring to you today maintains the 166-foot difference or separation. But to just give you an idea of Fisher Island, normally the separations -- this is just directly south of Villa del Mare. This is in the unincorporated area, and what you have in tower-to-tower separations in the unincorporated area ranges between 50 and 75 feet throughout the entire island. This project is separated almost two times that or 166 feet from building to building. We wanted to try to give you an idea of the .1 . vlsual experlence that you would have seeing this building from McArthur Causeway. So what we did is through the miracles of computer science we were able to generate our building; and as you can see, there are some other I buildings on this south tip of Miami Beach that are somewhat larger than ours; and if you look very closely, I am going to bring it closer you can see it. You will see a Villa del Mare right at the tip and right next to it would be the proposed building superimposed because it is so H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktrnan, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .,. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 small, no matter how big we made this picture. Again, we wanted to show it to you a little bit larger, and the architect will go into the specifics of the building. But the building we bring before you today computer-generated and superimposed into its site location is basically here. As you can see, it is compatible with the other buildings but different. One of the issues before the board the last time was, can you make it somewhat different than some of the other buildings or the other buildings on Fisher Island? And the architect will indicate some of those differences, but again, we have the pedestrian walkway which traverses the entire island. The pool will be on the Government Cut side. In the original one we brought before you we actually put the pool somewhat foolishly on the other side, and we had I flipped it back and still maintains in that location. And then you can see the separation between Villa del Mare and this particular building. Now, we also wanted to analyze what impacts this project would have on the views of Villa del Mare. And so again, we computer-generated H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 12 1 the building in its location and looked over. 2 This is Villa del Mare, again, that somewhat 3 large footprint of about 35,000 square feet, 4 superimposed our building; and as you can see, 5 the view that would be impeded by the building 6 basically is -- I don't know how to put this 7 it's not the best view of Fisher Island. It 8 basically is the view of Belcher Oil facility 9 and basically the Port of Miami, or what we call 10 Gantry Crane City, which unfortunately some of 11 your units on Fisher Island are adjacent to the 12 gantry cranes; but basically that view, what we 13 tried to do was tuck it in and block out that 14 particular gantry crane area while maintaining 15 the views again across Government Cut. 16 So to emphasize the separation between the 17 buildings, again the computer-generated 18 building, and again Villa del Mare, with 19 approximately 166 feet of separation between the 20 two buildings and the ability to pass through to I 21 pedestrian walkway, which goes through the 22 island. And looking at it another way, or the 23 opposite way again, the separation between Villa 24 ,del Mare which exists and the building of our 25 imagination, which exists here. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 13 1 What we managed to do by changing the 2 footprint, look, it's also pullout one of the 3 legs of the building which was basically 4 sticking up and also blocking views of others 5 and basically reduced the visual impacts this 6 way. 7 Again, as to compatibility with our 8 neighbor, this is Villa del Mare as it presently 9 stands. This is looking towards South Beach. 10 This is not on Fisher Island. The wonders of 11 modern photography and perspective, and this is 12 Portofino Tower. But, again, we are looking 13 north toward Miami Beach and again south into 14 the island which buildings I showed you earlier 15 and their various perspectives. 16 Mike Angoli from the Swedroe Group will 17 basically describe now the building itself. 18 Mike? 19 And just for purposes of the record, ln 20 case this matter goes any further, we would like 21 all of the visual examples that we have been 22 utilizing today incorporated in the record, and 23 if the clerk would number them before we leave 24 today, we will substitute small scale versions 25 for the clerk's benefit. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 14 1 MR. ANGOLI: Our objective in designing 2 this project, the next building 3 MR. NEVILLE: I am sorry, sir. Could you 4 just introduce yourself? 5 MR. ANGOLI: Yea. My name is Michael 6 Angoli. I am a partner in the firm of Robert 7 Swedroe Architects, Miami Beach. 8 MR. NEVILLE: Thank you. 9 MR. ANGOLI: Our objective in designing 10 this project has been to develop the next 11 building of Fisher Island in a way that's 12 totally compatible with the existing community. 13 In fact, the developers is mandate -- is 14 mandated to do so under the terms of the 15 original Dade County covenant, while at the same 16 time having this building distinguish itself as 17 a luxury residence which is unique amongst its 18 neighbors. 19 First and foremost, each residence in the 20 building, if you look at a typical floor of the 21 building, you can see called for four units 22 on the floor. There is four units on a floor I 23 here. Each unit i~ accessed by its own private 24 elevator, elevator foyer, eliminating the need 25 for corridors. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 15 1 MR. CARY: Could you hold the microphone up 2 a little closer? 3 MR. ANGOLI: Each of the four units is 4 accessed directly from the original -- from a 5 private elevator foyer. In other words, when 6 residents in their guests come to the dropoff at 7 the entrance to the building, they enter into a 8 private elevator, which takes them directly into 9 the apartment. 10 MR. CARY: We're losing you on the public 11 record. You've got to hold the mike closer, 12 please. i \--- 13 MR. ANGOLI: They are not required to exit 14 their elevator and circulate down a corridor to 15 the front door of the building. 16 This -- while this is considered common 17 practice in luxury condominiums of this size 18 today, it is unique to Fisher Island, and it 19 will be the first building of its kind designed 20 this way. 21 Secondly, as the visitors and guests arrive 22 at the building, they will enter into a second 23 level air conditioned entry foyer which will 24 have unobstructed views to the ocean and 25 Government Cut as you can see right here. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 16 1 And in addition to the two lanai level 2 units with the standard expanded private 3 terraces on either corner of the building, and 4 also this building will also contain public 5 amenities for residents of this building alone, 6 which will include the fitness center, the 7 pilates studio, a guest suite, public toilets 8 and home theater. Again, this is unique to the 9 existing buildings. 10 With regard to the exterior of the 11 building, our intention is to use the same rich 12 pallet of materials and colors that exist on the 13 island today, which include fish tail -- a fish 14 scale stucco texturing, precast stone columns 15 and moldings, barrel tile, terracotta barrel 16 tile roofs, ornamental railings and deep 1 7 terraces. 18 All in all, we think that this building 19 will totally will blend seemlessly into the 20 existing environment, yet at the same time we 21 think it will serve to enhance Fisher Island's 22 reputation as one of the premier luxury resort 23 residential communities. 24 If you have any other questions regards to 25 the specifics, I will be glad to answer. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 13 ( L_~___ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 MR. NEVILLE: Mr. Schulman, I am not sure that you explained why this is corning back in front of us. MR. SCHULMAN: Yes, sir. The existing buildings, which is in litigation limbo, for lack of better term, we have been looking at the this particular design for issues of salability. As you can well imagine, things have changed in three years as to what kind of units that are out there that we are competing with. And so what we basically did is did a revamp of the building looking at a more salable unit, including the availability of public spaces within the lobby area, which the older buildings on Fisher Island do not have, individual elevators, as well as maximizing views. And so that caused us basically to compress the building, get rid of a wing, if you will, and certain number of units to maximize these unit and also make them larger for redesign. So that litigation will continue. This building is also one which we wish to pursue and basically put on the marketplace, see how the market responds to it. So that's why we are back before you. Staff felt compelled, I guess H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 { 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 18 because of the somewhat elongated history, not to administratively make a determination as to whether or not this was substantially in accordance with the previously approved building and suggested that we bring it back to the board. MR. NEVILLE: If this is approved, are you going to drop your plans for the other building or MR. SCHULMAN: We don't know yet. The other building is still out there. If it's approved by the courts, we will then have the opportunity to see which one perhaps the residents want us to build. MR. MOONEY: This is a separate application from the one that was approved before, so in the event that the board was to approve this particular application in some form, they would essentially have two applications to choose from to build on the site. And we did indicate to the applicant that we thought that the changes that they made to the building were substantial, and that they could not be approved administratively. It would have to come back to th~s board as new approval. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 19 1 MR. NEVILLE: That is kind of my question 2 actually I was leading up to asking you. Is it 3 possible to have two different approvals for the 4 same site? 5 MR. MOONEY: Yes. 6 MR. NEVILLE: It is? Okay. 7 MR. SCHULMAN: And lastly, Mr. Chairman, 8 the only thing I would add, and I will be 9 available for any questions, is the staff in the 10 report recommendations raised some issues 11 regarding the height of the building and whether 12 or not variances would be required. 13 This is a mansard roof, and under the code 14 we believe it meets the requirements for height 15 and is in total compliance from a zoning point 16 of view, and I believe staff has verified that. 17 MR. MOONEY: Yes. And let me just verify 18 for the record this is a mansard roof. And it 19 has been measured to the top of the slab and it 20 does meet the code requirements for roof 21 heights. 22 MR. KNIGHT: Mr. Chairman, may I ask a 23 question for legal counsel? Understanding you 24 can apply for two -- anybody in the city could 25 apply and bring two completely fully developed H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 20 1 plans in for the same site and have the DRB 2 approve both plans and then choose which one to 3 build? 4 MR. CARY: Yes, that happened with the 5 Continuum site. 6 MR. HELD: I have no reason to disagree 7 with staff's opinion on that. 8 MR. KNIGHT: Does that affect, however, 9 does anything we do today affect the legal case 10 that is moving its way through the courts? In 11 12 13 \~-- other words, my question is that's really my i . i question is, does by taking action today In any way involve the city or whatever else is going 14 on here? 15 MR. HELD: We are already to party because 16 we are defending the prior DRB board decision. 17 I am sure the applicant's attorney would not be 18 bringing this application if it were not in the 19 best interest of the applicant, so whatever 20 benefits or disadvantages there may be, we will 21 just deal with that. 22 MR. SCHULMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We 23 are here to answer any questions. 24 MR. NEVILLE: Does anybody have any 25 questions for the applicant? H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 10 21 1 MR. STEFFENS: Do you have a rendering or 2 photograph that is similar to that view of the 3 previous project we approved? 4 MR. SCHULMAN: I did not bring a large 5 scale one, Mr. Steffens. I did bring a small 6 scale one if you will just give me a moment. 7 MR. STEFFENS: Also, do you have one of the 8 photographs of the Villa del Mare building -- 9 MR. SCHULMAN: Yes. MR. STEFFENS: that you could put up 11 that we could look at? 12 MR. SCHULMAN: I apologize, it's in black 13 and white. 14 MS. HYMAN: The design review board could 15 not make comment on anything because was so 16 reduced we could not read it. This is very, 17 very small. 18 MR. STEFFENS: Cliff, could you give us 19 some other pictures of the Villa del Mare that 20 are a little clearer like those? 21 22 MR. SCHULMAN: Yes. Okay. This is Villa del Mare as it exists. And 23 this is the proposed building here. 24 MR. KNIGHT: What is the height of the 25 Villa del Mare as compared to the -- H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 10 11 12 22 1 MR. SCHULMAN: One hundred twenty feet. 2 MR. KNIGHT: And the new building? 3 MR. SCHULMAN: Again, 120 feet is the 4 height of this particular parcel~ 5 MR. NEVILLE: And in stories? How many 6 stories comparatively? 7 MR. SCHULMAN: This building is ten. It's 8 one more story. Okay. Ten, ten over parking. MR. NEVILLE: How large is the existing building? MR. SCHULMAN: Nine over parking. MR. NEVILLE: Anybody else have any 9 13 questions or we will just open it up to the 14 public and bring it back to the board. 15 All right. Let's open up to the public. 16 Anybody from the public like to speak on this 17 application, please step forward. 18 Do you want to take those boards down? 19 MR. SCHULMAN: No, personally I want to 20 leave them up. Objection. 21 MR. NEVILLE: Little friendly legal banter 22 I guess, right? 23 24 MR. SCHULMAN: Definitely legal banter. MR. BASS: And I would dare characterize it 25 as friendly as well. Although, we will see if H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 23 1 my friend Cliff disagrees. I 2 I am told that the real reason they filed 3 this application, is that they were suffering 4 from separation anxiety. They hadn't had the 5 opportunity to spend a lot of time with me and 6 the~r neighbors, but we will see whether or not 7 Cliff disagrees with that. 8 For the record, Mr. Chairman, members of 9 the board, Jeffrey Bass is my name, 46 Southwest 10 First Street is my address. I am here 11 representing the condominium association 12 referenced as Villa del Mare, although their 13 proper name is Oceanside of Fisher Island 14 Condominium Association No.5, Inc. as well as 15 certain individual residents, owners of that 16 building and importantly citizens of the City of 17 Miami Beach, who -- some of whom have joined me 18 today, and that's Mr. and Mrs. Steve Burke and 19 Mr. Skippy Pines. And unfortunately, Mr. David 20 Paretsky is ill and can't be with us. I am 21 further joined by Ms. Suzanne Martinson, a 22 licensed architect, and former member of this 23 board many years ago. 24 On a housekeeping, a few housekeeping 25 items, I have no problem to incorporating the H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 24 1 record of the prior proceeding into the record 2 of this proceeding, but recognizing this is an 3 entirely separate and independent proceeding and 4 th~ prior proceedings are in no way binding on ! 5 this board. 6 We also throughout the prior proceedings 7 raised a series of constitutional challenges to 8 your design review board ordinance itself. We 9 recognize that this is not the proper arena to 10 raise the arguments. However, nothing we say 11 today should be construed as admitting that they 12 are constitutionally firm. 13 Cliff did an excellent job summarizing some 14 of the history leading up to the presentation 15 before you. Those members who were on the board 16 recognize, and I think the staff recognizes, 17 that the fundamental, the fundamental 18 philosophical question before this board is 19 whether or not this site should be treated 20 differently because it is on Fisher Island. 21 That's another way of saying, would you approve 22 a Mediterranean Revival building like this 23 anywhere else within the City of Miami Beach? 24 In this regard, I have to correct one thing 25 that Cliff said. Cliff characterized our H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 25 1 opposition as being anti-Mediterranean Revival 2 in the prior proceedings. That is not the case. I 3 We Inever came out against the language of 4 Mediterranean Revival. What we did say, 5 however, was the prior architectural treatment 6 didn't include any of those components that made 7 for good Mediterranean Revival. And in -- I I 8 think proof of the pudding is in the eating. We 9 went through lengthy, lengthy hearings. We went 10 through a series of revisions, four buildings, 11 three buildings, and then one building. 12 The four building plan was colorfully 13 referred to as mimicking Lefrak City or Co-op 14 City because when you have -- and it was a great 15 line, certainly a classic line because when you 16 line a -- when you line up this type of building 17 and you create this type of fabric, a term that 18 the board used in its prior proceedings to 19 describe the resulting architecture was 20 monotony. There was much debate as to whether 21 or not the architecture in the prior proceedings 22 was monotonous. 23 So and rather than straight ahead and up 24 front trying to cure the monotony, what they did 25 was they constricted the scope of the project H. AIlen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 26 1 from four buildings to three buildings to 2 finally to the one building, which I understood 3 from Cliff's proceeding to be basically 4 unmarketable, unsellable, and that's why they 5 are here corning back to the drawing board. 6 The lesson of the prior proceeding is they 7 can do better if you make them, but they are not 8 going to do better on their own. And we 9 respectfully submit that they can do better and 10 they should do better than the building that is I 11 before you. 12 I am not going to address the architecture, 13 per se, because I know how much the board loves 14 hearing lawyers speak about architecture. So we 15 have Suzanne Martinson to address that. 16 But on what I will call sort of the legal 17 component of this board's consideration or the 18 philosophical component of this board's 19 consideration, you have something unique in the 20 RM-PRD district, something that exists almost 21 nowhere, and that is you have a minimum lot size 22 of ten acres. 23 When you look at the staff report in this 24 case, they look at what is the size of the lot. 25 They described it as eleven acres. And one of H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 27 1 the standards that this board is obligated to 2 try to apply, if you can apply it, is to look at 3 a building and determine whether or not that 4 bu~lding represents an efficient arrangement of I 5 land use relative to the surrounding community. 6 We have said that there is nothing that 7 planning abhors more than piecemeal development. 8 And so rather than corning in with the one 9 bui[ding, and we will show you the rest later, 10 we have said that we need to do it in reverse. 11 Show us what you are going to do so you can have 12 a meaningful opportunity to comment on the 13 design because you know if you approve this 14 building, you are going to have an almost 15 impossible time saying no to the next building, 16 and then what we have here is an impenetrable 17 and monotonous wall of building next to building 18 next to building lining what has indisputably 19 been characterized as the most prominent 20 remaining building site in Miami Beach. 21 Now, the prior proceedings were fascinating 22 ln terms of you can never really predict how a 23 jury or how an audience like the board is going 24 to react to things. One of the most, I thought, 25 insightful comments raised was that raised by H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 28 1 Don Worth, and he said, let's stop for a moment 2 and pause and think about not how this building 3 is going to be experienced by Mr. Bass's clients 4 and their Villa del Mare because we owe a 5 greater obligation to the City. How are people 6 in South Pointe Park going to react to this? 7 And in the prior proceedings staff wrote a I I 8 recommendation more telling than this. When it 9 went out of its way to indicate that it was not 10 a fan of the architecture proposed, and that a 11 great case could be made for having Government 12 Cutl serve as an architectural corridor, not of a 13 derivative form of architecture that mimics 14 everything that Dade County approved, but of 15 something in the words used by the chair earlier 16 this morning and the words used by the board 17 then, speaks to architecture of its time, and I 18 would like to just read what staff put in its 19 report in the prior proceedings because that 20 component of the analysis has not changed, and 21 this is reading from the staff report of the 22 prior submission: 23 "A case can be made for introducing an 24 architectural style which is of its time and 25 less a duplication of established period of H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner -Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 L__ _ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 architecture. As previously indicated, although Fisher Island is private and the scale and context of the proposed new structures will not be readily viewed and experienced by the general public, these structures will define the architectural corridor of Government Cut." In this regard, the properties on the north side of Government Cut are characterized by architecture of its time, and buildings that contribute, not only to the scale and character of Ithe South Pointe area, but create an attractive and appropriate architectural corridor for those experiencing Miami Beach, not from within my client's condos but those experiencing Miami Beach from the water, and I I think one of those questions this board should have is what acknowledgment does this rendering have or does this building have to those experiencing Government Cut from the water? And I think the answer is none whatsoever. "The new" -- continuing from the staff report "The new development of a project on Fisher Island could augment this architectural corridor for those experiencing Miami Beach from the water. The new development could augment H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 30 this corridor by utilizing a less derivative building form and developing an architectural concept of its time." And they go on and in full fairness to context say, "However, the design chosen to the proposed development is consistent with the established building form of Fisher Island, and that the residents of Miami Beach will not I really experience proposed development in any direct way." That's what staff said last time, and I think they say the same thing this time. When you read their staff report, it could hardly be I characterized as cheerleading for the architecture of this project. And having sat through the proceedings this morning, I know that this board will have a difficult time reconciling a lot of the insightful comments and criticisms that it gave to, for example, the Wes Baylinson project which was, without question that was great; but when you look at the Byron Apartments, you started to see images of this. You see a large building. The only difference is, you know, maybe the next 20 years rather than brown, if they paint it pink, the H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Trak"tman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 31 1 resemblance will be closer. 2 But the question that I want to ask staff 3 just point blank to help shape the debate is: 4 Would staff recommend the approval of this 5 building anywhere else within the City of Miami 6 Beach? And I will ask that question to Mr. Cary 7 through the Chair and I will ask Mr. Mooney to 8 respond to it as well. This is a quasi-judicial 9 hearing, and I do have that right. They are 10 friends, so I am going to not pose it as 11 cross-examination. I would just like to get 12 I staff's comments on that question. 13 MR. CARY: Well, there has been a formula 14 of architecture that has been developed for this 15 area Fisher Island. The building that's 16 proposed works within that formula. Does that I 17 formula work elsewhere in Miami Beach? No, it 18 wouldn't because it would not be relevant to 19 other areas of Miami Beach. 20 There might be maybe a specific location 21 where the board may wish to consider from a 22 Mediterranean Revival style of architecture, but 23 this is major hi-rise architecture, but it's 24 consistent with the form of what's already been 25 evolved for Fisher Island. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 32 1 Would we want to see this building located 2 elsewhere on Miami Beach? I would be hard 3 pressed to identify a location where we would 4 like to see it and recommend it be approved. 5 MR. BASS: This is, if I could have 6 follow-ups, do you recall recommending an 7 approval of a building like that anywhere else 8 within the City of Miami Beach in this 9 Mediterranean Revival style in the last year? 10 MR. CARY: No. 11 MR. BASS: And just to follow up to your 12 formula, could you explain to me where that 13 formula for the context was established or how 14 you -- how you reached your conclusion? 15 MR. CARY: Well, the formula is established 16 on Fisher Island in itself, and I would imagine 17 the formula revolved from the original mansion 18 that was designed on Fisher Island, which is the 19 Mediterranean Revival style; and so I would 20 imagine -- I don't think either Tom or I were 21 here when the first buildings were approved for 22 Fisher Island, but they, you know, chose to take 23 the architecture of a low-rise architecture and 24 apply it to a hi-rise multifamily residential 25 developed architecture by applying barrel tile H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 18 33 1 roofs and the architectural elements and 2 features which are more related to the 3 Mediterranean Revival style of architecture. 4 And usually we look at a building such as is 5 proposed, we are gOlng to end up having a 6 Campanile, which is ten stories or eleven 7 stories in height, which is not really 8 characteristic of that type of architecture 9 style. Usually a Campanile is associated with 10 single-family residence of this style which may 11 be three stories in height or something like 12 that, but it's not inconsistent with that which 13 haS, already been designed for Fisher Island. 14 MR. BASS: And do you know whether that 15 which has already been designed has undergone 16 design review? 17 MR. CARY: I would defer to Tom on that. MR. MOONEY: I don't think so. Since I 19 have been here for eleven years and this is the 20 first building that I reviewed for approval on 21 Fisher Island. 22 23 24 MR. BASS: Thank you. MR. CARY: I mean, the architecture is not consistent with the philosophy, you know, the 25 general philosophy of the board and the staff H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 34 1 and architecture should be of its time on Miami 2 Beach. That's why this is a very special design 3 environment. 4 MR. BASS: Thank you very much and thank 5 you for the opportunity to ask you those 6 questions. Couple of more points, and I will 7 move on. 8 MR. NEVILLE: Okay. 9 MR. BASS: And they are largely technical 10 in nature. 11 To begin with, none of the studies that I 12 saw today were included in the submission in the 13 design review file. Just the opposite is in 14 fact the case. When you review the submissions 15 16 17 18 and the design review, the kit as you call it, we believe that they are deficient. We believe I that the staff report recognizes it as such. You almost never see a staff report where the 19 FAR of the building is proposed is N/A. And 20 when you look through the submissions, the best 21 that I could see in terms of a context study is 22 page eleven. And if you were to turn to page 23 eleven, I know that Ms. Martinson is going to 24 use page eleven as one of the speaking points, 25 because you don't even have a site plan as part H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Trak-tman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 i I \. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 35 of your submission. At best you have is what's known as a partial site plan, making it very difficult to appreciate what's happening here within the proper context, and we would submit without a proper site plan submitted it would be impossible for this board to discharge its review duties to determine the satisfaction of the design criteria. I have a few handouts. Unfortunately, I am a few short. So I am going to hand them to the board. They are nothing different than those which we previously used in the prior proceedings. They are some pictures of the existing conditions on Fisher Island that I think help illustrate what our cause for concern is if this same building prototype is allowed to replicate without any meaningful differentiation whatsoever, and also to again confirm the fact we are not saying no to Med. Revival. We are I saying no to bad Med. Revival. We have collected a series of images which we believe present pure components of Med. Revival which we would like to see introduced into any building that is constructed so close to ours. We are not going to discuss zoning before H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 36 1 you because we know that that issue is not 2 before this board. We are not going to discuss 3 density before you. We are not going to discuss 4 height before you. We have limited our comments 5 today to the architecture of this building, and 6 we would hope that you would give this building 7 the same robust review that you give to any 8 other building that is filed within the City of 9 Miami Beach for your consideration. 10 We believe that because you wouldn't 11 approve this building anywhere else, you can't 12 and shouldn't approve it here without 13 significant modifications. And that said, I 14 would like to ask Suzanne Martinson to come up 15 and speak briefly about the architecture. 16 MR. STEFFENS: Before you go, before you 17 go, you just want better Mediterranean Revival I 18 architecture? 19 MR. BASS: What I said was, we want better. 20 And what I also said was, we are not here to say 21 no to Mediterranean Revival categorically, and 22 we pave never said that. 23 What we said was, when you look to this 24 building, when you look to the elements of this 25 building, this building really is nothing to get H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 37 excited about. I never heard anybody say anything from your staff positive about it other than that it kind of blends in and maybe it will disappear. MR. STEFFENS: Do you want better architecture or do you want better Mediterranean Revival architecture? MR. BASS: I don't see the two as being inconsistent objectives. Certainly better Mediterranean architecture would be better MR. STEFFENS: Well just depends on how descriptive we get. Because we could just look for better architecture and leave it open, and then you could end up with a Helmut Jahn building next to your neighbors, which I don't know if they would really prefer that, or we can look for better Mediterranean Revival architecture so that maybe there is something compatible with the neighbors. MR. BASS: Let me, if I may respond to your I comment, I don't think that this board should handcuff itself in any way in terms of its review of the development proposed for this site. In all fairness, however, Mr. Schulman has said, and we don't dispute, there are I H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 38 1 certain constraints on the developer as it 2 relates to the style of building. 3 So I am not going to stand here and be a 4 cutey pie and tell you to go make him build a 5 Helmut Jahn building when I know that he can't 6 do that. That's not our position whatsoever, 7 and it would be a mischaracterization to 8 conclude as such. 9 What we are here to say is, they can do 10 better than the building that they have 11 suggested. And it's up to you all to make sure 12 that they do, and we would look forward to 13 hearing the comments Dr criticisms that you 14 might have as to what could make it better. 15 MR. CHEVALIER: What is constraining him? 16 MR. BASS: I am sorry. I will let 17 Mr. Schulman on rebuttal respond to that. It's 18 my understanding that there is a constraint 19 contained in a -- either the covenant, 20 self-imposed developer covenant that limits in 21 some broad terms the ultimate design to prohibit 22 a Helmut Jahn glass and steel curtain building. 23 But I will let Mr. Schulman respond to that. 24 And I think it's a very relevant question, but 25 no, we are not seeking to put him in a Catch-22 H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 39 1 dilemma in any respect. 2 MR. LEFTON: I feel like we are in a 3 Catch-22 with your comments where you have 4 suggested that you want a better Med. Revival 5 building. So let's say if we could somehow 6 agree that we have the best, whatever that is, 7 whatever that is, the best Med. Revival 8 building, you have also told us that we 9 shouldn't approve this because we wouldn't 10 approve it elsewhere. And I think even the 11 best, whatever that is, Med. Revival building, 12 we wouldn't approve anywhere else, so I am not 13 sure how if we get to yours or anybody else's 14 definition of what the best is, that we can 15 still respond to your concern that we wouldn't 16 approve it anywhere else, and I am caught in a 17 question of what are you looking for? 18 MR. KNIGHT: And let me add one third point 19 to those two previous points; and that is, it's 20 not clear to me if you are asking for the best 21 Mediterranean Revival or if you are asking for 22 us Ito view this building as a building that 23 would go any place else on Miami Beach, or if 24 indeed you are really saying a third point, that 25 you don't want any building, any additional H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & WiIdner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 40 1 building approved until you have a full building 2 plan for the rest of the remaining unbuilt area 3 of the Miami Beach portion of Fisher Island. 4 MR. BASS: I will start in the reverse if I 5 may. Absolutely yes to the last. Not an 6 inconsistent position. That is to say, we 7 really don't think it's appropriate for this 8 board to approve any building there without 9 understanding the context of those buildings 10 that are going to populate the rest of that 11 site. So that, that I make as an independent 12 point. Independent of the other two. 13 To respond to, as best as I can recall, 14 points one through three, our positions are the 15 following: We want the best building possible. 16 I never said we want the best Med. Revival 17 building. We want the best building possible. 18 What I did concede, however, point of fact, 19 Mr. Schulman says he might have trouble building 20 the best building possible if it's anything 21 other than Med. Revival. I am not here to 22 advocate Med. Revival In any form, but I am 23 certainly not here to oppose it, either. 24 However you dice it, they can do a better 25 building than this building, and I think it's up I H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 10 41 1 to this board to explore where this building can 2 be approved, and it's up to this board to 3 determine what language is appropriate for those 4 improvements. 5 MR. NEVILLE: Okay. 6 MR. CHEVALIER: Do you think the 7 building 8 MR. NEVILLE: Peter, do you have something 9 else to add? MR. CHEVALIER: How would you judge the 11 building that you are representing in terms an 12 example of Med. Revival? 13 MR. BASS: Let me answer that question as 14 candidly as I can. My clients didn't build 15 their building. None of them are architects or 16 purport to be architects. They bought a 17 building anchoring a point of land at a point in 18 time when there was nothing around them. The 19 entire context has changed. At the time, and 20 this is in the record of the prior proceedings, 21 at the time that they bought there was a 22 representation made to them and, in fact, if you 23 look at the survey before you, you can see that 24 site is platted for 12 estate homes. 25 Now, we are not here to tell you to make H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 42 1 them build 12 estate homes, although I would be 2 lying of i tell you it wouldn't delight us or 3 even 24 estate homes, but we are not here to 4 make that argument. What we are here to tell 5 you is that the proposition of living next to, 6 in that building that my clients live in, 12 7 single-family estates on Government Cut versus 8 being sandwiched into a wall of like buildings 9 are two palpably different positions. 10 I am not here to tell you that our building 11 is the greatest building from any architectural 12 standpoint. It has movement to it and contours 13 to it that the proposed -- the new proposed 14 building does not. You look at the flat, drop 15 edges of this building and I will let Suzanne 16 Martinson, an architect speak to that, but I am 17 not here to hold out our building as any 18 postcard for great Med. Revival architecture. I 19 will simply say, you know, we didn't build it, 20 we didn't develop it and we didn't approve it. 21 MR. NEVILLE: I have a little concern about 22 what you said about having the best possible 23 building. We all want the best building on 24 every application that comes through here, but 25 we are not in the business of dictating who the H. Aden Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 43 1 architect is. 2 Maybe the best building could be designed 3 by some architect from somewhere else that, we 4 are not going to tell the developer who to hire 5 as an architect. We have had architects corne 6 through here that are less talented than others 7 perhaps, and we have worked with them to get the 8 best building possible that perhaps that 9 architect can design for that site. And I think 10 that's what, you know, we are all in agreement 11 for, but to just state that the mission is to 12 get the best building possible I think is maybe 13 not possible. 14 Not only that, there is cost constraints 15 perhaps. So we can't tell the developer to, you 16 know, open your pocketbook and spend freely to 17 make the best building. There is obvious 18 constraints that we all know about, and we have 19 to treat that have I think very delicately. 20 MR. BASS: Well, certainly nothing I should 21 say should have been viewed as passing on the 22 qualifications of one architect over another. I 23 spent enough time before this board to know that 24 revisions and improvement go hand in hand. It's 25 very infrequently the case that a project is H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 44 1 presented to this board and they corne out 2 without having any meaningful input from this 3 board in terms of how to make the building I 4 better. 5 MR. NEVILLE: That's what we are here for. 6 MR. KNIGHT: May I ask the attorney one 7 other question? Is it within the purview of 8 this board to say that we cannot act on a 9 particular building unless we have a plan for 10 the entire buildout of an area? 11 MR. HELD: Staff has a comment that you 12 might want to listen to before -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 MR. MOONEY: We have not done that in the past and so -- MR. KNIGHT: Have or have not? MR. MOONEY: We have not done that in the past. MR. HELD: If you are asking whether it's 19 within your discretion to say that, it probably 20 is within your discretion. However, it's not 21 required, and the building can stand on its own 22 might. 23 MR. STEFFENS: I have another question for 24 the attorney. What are your clients going to do 25 when they propose a building to the south of H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 { 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 them that doesn't go through design review? I MR. BASS: To the south of them, I am not sure. MR. STEFFENS: The empty building site for the south of them? MR. BASS: I would be speculating. I would be speculating. MR. CHEVALIER: It's not in the City of Miami Beach. MR. BASS: That's a good point. Obviously the balance of the island was developed without design review because it's not within the City of Miami Beach. When you look at the rest of the island you can see that design review can serve a very salient point, but I would be speculating. MR. STEFFENS: And the site directly adjacent, that's an empty building site. That's not Miami Beach. That's not subject to design review. MR. SCHULMAN: Just to clear the record up, that site is developed at the present time. MR. STEFFENS: That has been developed? MR. SCHULMAN: Yes. MR. STEFFENS: So your photographs are not H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 46 1 up to date? 2 MR. SCHULMAN: That's correct. Let me just 3 point that out to you. 4 MR. STEFFENS: Okay. 5 MR. MOONEY: Mr. Chairman, after this item 6 there is one more item, it's a request for 7 rehearing for the Marlborough House. The 8 planning board has a meeting at two o'clock in 9 these chambers and so we received a request if 10 we could try to finish everything up between 11 1:30 and 1:45. 12 13 MR. NEVILLE: That's fine. MR. SCHULMAN: Let me just point out this 14 particular site, which is that what you are 15 referring to? 16 17 MR. STEFFENS: Yes. MR. SCHULMAN: Two buildings are now 18 existing in this particular site in the 19 unincorporated area. 20 21 MR. STEFFENS: Okay. MR. SCHULMAN: By the way, they are 75 feet 22 away from this building. 23 24 25 MR. STEFFENS: Were they challenged? MR. SCHULMAN: No. MR. NEVILLE: Okay. Suzanne, we have been H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 47 1 alerted that we have to vacate at 1:45. Okay. 2 MS. MARTINSON: For the record, my name is 3 SU1anne Martinson. I reside at 7910 Southwest 4 54th Court, Miami, Florida 33143, and I am a 5 licensed architect, and I would like to readapt 6 my prior statements concerning this site and for 7 a building of this nature. 8 This building is very similar in the 9 presentations that you have seen before. It's a 10 formulaic solution, and it fails to capture the 11 potential magnificence of this site at the 12 entrance to the harbor of Miami and Government 13 Cut. 14 Architecturally speaking, it's an extruded 15 form. There is seven floor plates that are 16 bilaterally symmetrical and stacked one on top 17 of another creating the same elevational detail 18 in that region, the midbody of the building, and 19 it's placed on a parking podium and with the 20 penthouse levels that are roofed above it to cap 21 off the building. 22 It has the appearance of an engineered 23 design solution and seems to have been valued, 24 engineered down to -- down to its minimal 25 essence with a few Mediterranean Revival details H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 48 1 on the building. I 2 I would definitely like to see more of a 3 creative concept for the development of the 4 site, and I have no qualms about the use of 5 Mediterranean Revival architecture. We have 6 discussed this in the past; that it has a I 7 particularly rich vocabulary and coming off as a 8 segment of classical architecture that allows 9 architects a great variety in the vocabulary and 10 especially the creation of space. 11 I would like to see this building take the 12 opportunity on the site, have varied heights to the structure instead of a completely stacked 13 14 plate approach. All of the wonderful issues 15 that you have been discussing, smaller projects 16 on Miami Beach, a relationship to the pedestrian 17 street, the relationship to an automotive 18 street, your sense of arrival and entrance from 19 land side, the sense of arrival into the ship of 20 arrival into Miami, the view from the other side 21 of Miami Beach across the Government Cut, the 22 Vlew there to this particular site. 23 Within the Mediterranean vocabulary you 24 have the great potential of the solid void 25 relationship that you could create spaces within H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 49 1 the complex of the building itself. The 2 exploration of that, the juxtaposition of scale 3 within the building envelope, some of the 4 elevational ideas that could be used. The 5 opJortunity to pop out sections of the building 6 for different roof structures. 7 I would like you to refer to page eleven, 8 as Jeff said, in the architectural drawings. 9 This was the presentation of the contextual r 10 elevation, and you can see the relationship of 11 the new building to the existing building. The 12 existing building at least has a step-down 13 facade. No attempt to pick up on a cornice 14 height maybe that might have been established by 15 an existing building that this building is 16 relating to. This is a shear extrusion up. 17 Opportunity to break down some of the 18 roofs, lower the scale possibly, and there isa 19 great variety of things that can be done if one 20 really applied themself. 21 I mean, I have the feeling when I look at 22 this project that it was designed not to 23 context, similar to the lack of information 24 supplied on this page, with the plan just 25 brought in through AutoCat, put down on the H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, TraJ.:tman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 50 1 site. You don't even have a whole plan on the 2 site to see how it relates and the same thing 3 set on the ground level line. It's just flown 4 in and plopped down, and it could be flopped 5 down anywhere along this eleven-acre site. 6 And what is the real shame here is that one 7 has a great opportunity to take this valuable 8 lartd and really design something meaningful and 9 worthwhile for Fisher Island in and of itself, 10 not even Miami Beach, but for Fisher Island; 11 that they have a variety of spaces and a variety 12 of pedestrian/golf cart/car experiences to I 13 activate the architecture. 14 Back to sheet eleven, the lack of design 15 and recognition of context again is evident in 16 the sheet, and the whole parceling of the site I 17 think would be very important here, and you 18 know, maybe a different marketing approach. We 19 don't -- we are not within the purview to, you 20 know, tell them what to do, but I mean they 21 could make it a very exiting, salable thing just 22 from a different point of view instead of having 23 the same mid-rise building that they have been 24 offering on the island. There is a great 25 opportunity here. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 51 1 In conclusion I would like to say that the 2 design -- I hope that the design review board 3 doesn't approve this submittal, and that they 4 would call upon the designers of this building 5 to meet the same high standards and the -- and 6 to Ipay attention to all of the levels of 7 architectural detail and concerns that you have 8 about pedestrians and viewers and importance of 9 the site and make them adhere to your stringent 10 requirements. I 11 MR. NEVILLE: Thank you, Suzanne. 12 Anyone else from the public would like to 13 speak? Okay, Mr. Bass, do you have something 14 more to say? 15 MR. BASS: Yes, just wrapping up again, I 16 want to thank you for your opportunity. I would 17 like to conclude by saying we don't believe that 18 they have met their burden of proving they have 19 satisfied the standards by substantial and 20 competent evidence, and we would ask you to make 21 them go back to the drawing board and design a 22 better building. 23 MR. NEVILLE: We will close it to the 24 public if no one else wants to corne up. 25 I was on the board the last time this thing H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 52 1 carne In four times, and when I saw this in my 2 packet, believe me, I shuddered because it was 3 very contentious. The fact is, to my memory it 4 is really the most contentious application that 5 I have seen corne through here. I have spoke in 6 favor of this from the very first meeting, and I 7 will just keep my comments brief and to the 8 point why I spoke in favor of it at the time. 9 Number one, yes, it is part of Miami Beach 10 and, no, I would not approve this anywhere else. 11 There is no greater advocate for architecture of 12 today than I am. That's what I encourage, and 13 that's what I promote, and this doesn't and did 14 notl meet those requirements. However, it's part 15 of Fisher Island. Yeah, it's in Miami Beach, 16 but it's part of Fisher Island. The context is 17 not Miami Beach, but Fisher Island. And it's so . 18 detached that I made a point that you have to 19 get there by a ferry. You can't even get there 20 from the roads of Miami Beach. It's not likely 21 at all that any resident in the main island of 22 Miami Beach would go and view this building no 23 matter what its outcome may be. Yeah, you would 24 be able to see from across the Government Cut. 25 If it wasn't there, it wouldn't change H. AIl en Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 1 dramatically the view. I think you are going to 2 still see the same type of architecture, whether 3 it's there or not. 4 So I didn't think it was detrimental, even 5 from that point of view. All right. 6 However, this, as Mr. Schulman pointed out, 7 this went through four different applications or 8 four different presentations. Each one Suzanne 9 and Mr. Bass brought up certain things, and I really do think that in hindsight their points helped sway the board to tell the applicant to im~rove the building, which is what they are doing today, and I really do feel like the building was improved during that time, although I can't remember -- I remember there was one version I really liked, and I don't remember if th~t was the last version or not, but it seemed to be a little more stripped down or something; but I think rather than having these people come back four or five times, I don't know what you are all feeling about this project, but my feeling is if we can get Suzanne and their architect together, and they come back and everybody agrees that this is the type of building that should be there, it's marketable. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 54 1 It meets the criteria that Ms. Martinson has put 2 out as being somewhat acceptable architecture or 3 even better than that, then we live in a perfect 4 world. So I would encourage that. I would like 5 to hear how you feel. 6 MR. SCHULMAN: Mr. Chairman, can I address 7 that before we go much further with that? 8 I think Mr. Bass was quite candid with the 9 board as to the type of architecture that he and 10 his clients would like to see here, and that is I I 11 a Mediterranean Revival single-family lot 12 concept, and we understand that. We know that 13 Jeff and I can walk outside right now and we can 14 agree upon that and we would be done. 15 We also know that over the entire period of 16 time that we went through the almost year of 17 board review we never were able to reach 18 agreement with our neighbors regarding what they 19 wanted to see on the site in the way of 20 architectural nuances. This board eventually 21 wanted the building to be somewhat different and 22 this building is somewhat different. It's 23 smaller in mass. It's substantially different 24 than any other building on Fisher Island, and I 25 don't think that that's going to really do H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 55 1 anything. 2 Without getting into the specifics of it, 3 Mr. Bass and I have spoken about this building 4 before we filed the application, and we were 5 unable to agree to any understanding with regard 6 to this building. 7 This building we believe stands OD its own, 8 and nothing that we say will change the fact 9 that our neighbors don't want a building of this 10 size next to it, and I don't care if you 11 designed it with Helmut Jahn, Carlos Ott, 12 whatever architect that you manage to find, all 13 right, and it was this size building which has I approved for this site since the beginning been of zoning when it was zoned on Miami Beach, there is not going to be in agreement with us 14 15 16 17 regarding that, and I virtually guarantee that, 18 and I know you are well intentioned, Mr. I 19 Chairman, because like to try to reach 20 consensus, but there is really no consensus 21 here. They don't want us there. All right. 22 They live in a building and the proof -- the 23 proof of the pudding is ln the eating. All 24 right. Jeff said it. All right. They live in 25 a building which right now they are telling you H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 18 56 1 is bad architecture and their excuse is they 2 didn't build it. They bought it for $2 million 3 or more, and now the next building, they don't 4 like this one because it's bad architecture, 5 which I disagree with. I think Robert Swedroe & 6 Associates is quality architecture, and they 7 have attempted to keep the flavor of the island 8 but changed it substantially from any other 9 building on the island so it stands alone. We 10 are not going to agree architecturally with 11 Suzanne on a building or Jeff or his clients, as 12 long as it's a building that comes out of the 13 ground. 14 MR. NEVILLE: It's the type of 15 recommendation I would make with any, any 16 application-- 17 MR. SCHULMAN: This is different. MR. NEVILLE: -- that comes here with 19 neighbors that object. Get together with the 20 neighbors, and you know, let's corne together. 21 Let's make this a really nice -- 22 23 24 MR. SCHULMAN: I know and we tried and -- MR. NEVILLE: Okay. MR. HELD: I would also counsel against 25 that recommendation. H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 10 11 12 13 57 1 MR. NEVILLE: Okay. All right. I take 2 that off the board. 3 MR. STEFFENS: Counsel, against which 4 recommendation? 5 MR. HELD: Sending the architects to try 6 and work together to a bring up a solution 7 because-- 8 MR. CHEVALIER: Bring staff. Let staff do 9 tha t. MR. STEFFENS: Put staff between them. MR. HELD: Exercise in futility. MS. HYMAN: With a referee. MR. NEVILLE: Let's do our job then. Let's 14 debate the project. 15 MR. SCHULMAN: Can I finish up my last 16 point on rebuttal? And that is, I would like to 17 ask William a question, also again in the nature 18 of, not in the nature of cross-examination. 19 What role, if any, does context play when 20 youl are judging whether or not a particular 21 architectural style is acceptable or 22 unacceptable? Does context play a role? 23 MR. CARY: Of course context plays a role. 24 MR. SCHULMAN: Is there any other place in 25 Miami Beach that would meet the context of H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 58 Fisher Island as it presently exists architecturally? MR. CARY: Not as -- perhaps not as a thoroughly because it's been so exercised in Fisher Island. MR. SCHULMAN: The only other points I would raise, Mr. Chairman, is that, again, this building is not a mirror image of the building next door. It's substantially smaller. It is different. It does not have the same floor plate as our neighbors. It is a different building, and in point of fact, we believe it's a better example of contemporary Mediterranean, if you will, than the building in which these residents live, which is good architecture to begin with for Fisher Island; and we do disagree that this is not good architecture, especially corning from those that live in the building and I basically paid for it with their hard-earned dollars in order to basically enjoy the lovely architecture that they have. MR. NEVILLE: Thanks, Mr. Schulman. Let's opep up here to the board. Anybody like to take the initial step? Mike? MR. STEFFENS: As Cliff stated, I was here H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktrnan, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 59 last time and Mr. Bass quoted me on Lefrak City, and I was also more or less in agreement with what you were -- with what you were reiterating, Greg, about this being separate, this being Fisher Island, this being those type of buildings. But I do have to say that I think that this building is more devoid of architecture, whether it be Mediterranean style architecture or Med. Revival or whatever we want to call it, than any building that we have seen proposed yet for this site. I think this building, while I don't agree with this architecture in any place else on Miami Beach other than Fisher Island, I think this building needs a lot of work before it could exist on Fisher Island. So I would say that the architect would need to take another look at this building and do some more work on it and come back to us. I don't have a problem approving the Fisher Island kirid of building, but I just don't think this really works very well. MR. NEVILLE: Mike, I leave it up to you. If you want to be any more specific and send the I H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 60 1 architect, if it comes to that, send the 2 architect away with any recommendations that 3 would improve it or what they should focus on 4 perhaps. 5 I think Suzanne made a lot MR. STEFFENS: 6 of good comments in this building. It's a slab. 7 It's not really articulated very well. The 8 scale and proportions of the openings are not 9 handled very well. There is not a lot of 10 articulation in the height. It doesn't step 11 down. You know, the Mediterranean Revival 12 buildings aren't a slab, you know. It needs 13 some more articulation in it and more scale 14 quality. 15 16 MR. NEVILLE: Okay. Thank you, Mike. Peter? 17 MR. CHEVALIER: I would like to add 18 actually two things. I think we do, just to 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reiterate, we do look at the context and the I relevance and contextually this type of architecture is relevant to its context. The other thing is I think the board should think about is it how far we want to go with the piecemeal treatment of a site, and do we want to I see a master plan for this site? Do we want to H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 61 go there? And do we want to get into that? It always makes me uncomfortable when someone says, I am doing this here and I will show you the rest later. MR. NEVILLE: I think we can only assume this is the only building intended to be put on the site because it's the only one on the application. MR. CHEVALIER: Then they should tell us that. MR. NEVILLE: However, the last application had three buildings and then it went to one, but -- how did it finally corne out, Torn? MR. CHEVALIER: This hasn't been designed as building sitting at one end of a site and the rest to be -- MR. HELD: Sure, it has. This is a phased development. This is the first of probably three buildings. Yes, sir. MR. STEFFENS: On South pointe, it was the original South Pointe Tower, that project included all of that land in there, and it was or~ginally a proposal to do four or five sort of similar towers in that area. MR. MOONEY: That went by the wayside H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 'rest Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ! 62 because as you can see, it was developed piecemeal. Each individual building was brought before this board for approval at different times. MR. STEFFENS: But the original site plan showed that tower and -- MR. MOONEY: Yes. MR. STEFFENS: four or five footprints of other similar towers, and then when it came back we weren't getting those other similar towers. We were getting other buildings. So if we here, if we get a site plan proposal, they will come back to us at a later date and in a similar fashion revise those other towers where those footprints are. MR. HELD: But you will be assured it will be consistent architecture. MR. KNIGHT: Ultimately you need a frame of reference to -- MR. MOONEY: Ultimately you retain final control over what is going to be constructed on the other portions of this site, which would be to the immediate southwest of this site. So whether it's shown now or shown to you two or three years later, you are still going to H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 63 1 retain control. 2 MR. SCHULMAN: In point of fact, Mr. 3 Chairman, the previous court order basically 4 said that specifically we would have to come 5 back to you for any other buildings on the site, 6 and I think one of the reasons we were trying to 7 maintain the flexibility is, I don't know what 8 the other building or buildings, will look like. 9 Okay. This building is a different building 10 than I brought you three years ago. All right. 11 Because of differences that have taken place in 12 the market beyond Fisher Island in other areas. 13 And as to what's going to take place in the 14 remainder of the site, we need the flexibility 15 to be able to respond. I don't know, and you 16 couldn't ask me today will there be two or three 17 more buildings on this site? I don't know. It 18 will depend upon the market, what's out there. 19 The first units on Fisher Island, just to give 20 you an idea, were 2200 square feet in size. 21 Those are the units over by the main marina. 22 Unfortunately, I am the lawyer who runs 23 with the land. I have been with the Fisher 24 Island since the beginning, and it was thought I 25 in those years -- it was brilliant -- 2200 H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 64 1 square foot units. Those units were quite 2 different than the 4,000 and 5,000, 6,000 square 3 foot units that are being built today on Fisher 4 Island in this marketplace, and the buildings 5 were going to have necessarily be different. We 6 will have to corne back to you with each of the 7 buildings and prove that it integrates into the 8 site from the point of view that we are doing 9 now. 10 We are showing you how this building 11 integrates into the as-built character of the 12 rest of the site where Villa del Mare was 13 approved alone. Okay. Not with the rest of the 14 site, and this building is two-thirds the size 15 of Villa del Mare with totally different unit 16 layouts than were there before. And so we need 17 that marketing flexibility, but we cannot avoid 18 corning back to this board. Not that I would 19 like to, of course, because I make my living 20 doing it, but we will be back before you, and 21 you will ask those questions as to context, 22 et cetera. But again, we don't know what the 23 next building is going to be until we see what 24 the marketplace is. 25 MR. NEVILLE: Peter, do you have anything H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 'lest Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 65 1 else to add? Okay. 2 Gary? 3 MR. KNIGHT: I guess I am not impressed 4 with this building. I am I don't think it 5 has sufficiently interesting architectural 6 elements to make it worthwhile to spend two or I 7 $3 million on a condominium in it. So I don't 8 really understand if this is indeed a market 9 response, what the nature of the market is 10 because I would want to live, if I am going to 11 spepd that kind of money, in something that is 12 architecturally much more interesting even if it 13 is Mediterranean Revival, and even if it is in 14 the context of sort of a Disney-esque 15 Mediterranean location. 16 I think that the building can be a better 17 building as in order to meet what I would 18 think would be your marketing concerns and also 19 what I think should be the design concerns that 20 we have. 21 I don't think it, however, doesn't -- that 22 the whole idea of a Mediterranean building like 23 this doesn't have any fits within the context 24 of the County portion of the property and the 25 City portion of the property, and I don't see H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 65 1 else to add? Okay. 2 Gary? 3 MR. KNIGHT: I guess I am not impressed 4 with this building. I am I don't think it 5 has sufficiently interesting architectural 6 elements to make it worthwhile to spend two or 7 $3 million on a condominium in it. So I don't 8 really understand if this is indeed a market 9 response, what the nature of the market is 10 because I would want to live, if I am going to 11 sp~nd that kind of money, in something that is 12 architecturally much more interesting even if it 13 is Mediterranean Revival, and even if it is in 14 the context of sort of a Disney-esque 15 Mediterranean location. 16 I think that the building can be a better 17 building as in order to meet what I would 18 think would be your marketing concerns and also 19 what I think should be the design concerns that 20 we have. 21 I don't think it, however, doesn't -- that 22 the whole idea of a Mediterranean building like 23 this doesn't have any fits within the context 24 of the County portion of the property and the 25 City portion of the property, and I don't see H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 66 1 that this -- it's the board's purview to change 2 that particular correction. So I would -- I 3 propose that we continue it, see a better design 4 and move forward. 5 MR. NEVILLE: Thanks, Gary. 6 Steve. 7 MR. KNIGHT: I will move -- 8 MR. NEVILLE: I am sorry. Steve, do you 9 want to add anything? 10 MR. LEFTON: Yes, I think -- think my 11 comments are going to be pretty much along the 12 same vein, but I want to provide as much 13 clarity to the applicant as possible if we can 14 come to some level of consensus. 15 I don't have an issue with things like 16 separation or the size of building or the mass 17 of the building. My problem is with the actual 18 building, and I think we need to separate those 19 is~ues. I mean, it's the architecture, I think, 20 and going to heightening the quality of the 21 architecture of this particular building, it 22 seems to me like it's a Med. Revival skin on a 23 very simple rectangular building, and I guess I 24 would challenge the design team to look to a 25 building that has some more movement and some H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 67 1 animation beyond this rectangular sort of column 2 system that we see in a lot of some of the more 3 contemporary buildings. That's what was 4 applied, and then a skin put on it. 5 So that lS my biggest concern is that I do 6 believe that on this style or this, the 7 direction of Med. Revival, I don't think this is 8 what we are looking for in this building; that 9 what has been presented in this building meets 10 the quality of some of the other buildings and 11 would heighten the quality of Fisher Island. If 12 that's what we are trying to do, and I think it 13 is. 14 So I do want to make it clear, everybody is 15 in agreement, that we are looking for something 16 that is contextually appropriate with the 17 bu~ldings on Fisher Island and put that debate 18 to rest. And focus on the actual buildings so 19 the architect can bring us back something that 20 we can really move forward with. 21 22 23 24 MR. NEVILLE: I think that's very well sta'ted. I think we all agree in that. Anybody want to make a motion then? MR. LEFTON: I will make the motion. I 25 will make the motion to continue with a request H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Tral.'tman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 '< 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 68 that the architect come back to us with a building that's architecturally contextually appropriate for Fisher -- what we see existing on Fisher Island to address the -- how would you describe this -- the -- not so much the scale, the movement of the building. The overall mass I believe is acceptable, to the movement within the building to create more of a -- maybe animation within the facades or to address the lack of massing articulation. MR. MOONEY: Okay. Cliff, when would you like to come back? MR. SCHULMAN: Are you available tomorrow? I think we can churn this out overnight. I don't see a problem with that. I MR. NEVILLE: Why don't we just do it tonight? MR. SCHULMAN: Why don't we just stick around through the planning board meeting. We canlprobably get it done at the end of the planning board meeting. We would like to be on next available agenda. MR. MOONEY: May, so you continue May 18th. MR. NEVILLE: Okay. MR. SCHULMAN: Tom, what's the deadline for H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 10 69 1 filing revised plans? 2 MR. MOONEY: Next week, you are looking at 3 middle to late next week. MR. NEVILLE: Did anyone second that? MR. SCHULMAN: Late next week? MR. MOONEY: Yes. MR. KNIGHT: I will second it. MR. NEVILLE: Gary seconds. All in favor, say aye. All opposed? None opposed. 4 5 6 7 8 9 MR. SCHULMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 11 (Whereupon, the proceedings concluded at 12 1:10 p.m.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 H. Allen Benowitz - Jessica R. Berman - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 i 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 70 HEARING CERTIFICATE STATE OF FLORIDA ) ) SS: COUNTY OF MIAMI-DADE) I, Darby Ginsberg, Registered Professional Reporter, certify that I was authorized and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and that this transcript is a true and complete record of the proceedings before the Court. I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel for any of the parties nor am I a relative of, employee of any of the parties; attorney of counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. DATED this 26th day of June, 2004. Q7~ Darby Ginsberg, RPR Notary Public H. Allen Benowitz. Jessica R. Bennan - Peggy Cook - Matz, Traktman, Feldman & Wildner - Ivy Court Reporting 19 West Flagler Street, Suite 1020 A Veritext Company (305) 376-8800