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1674-1 C.W. (Pete) ChaseORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW with C. W. (PETE) CHASE December 10, 1968 Historical Association of Southern Florida by /fa If you do I'll shoot you, so they sent me off to boarding school. Interviewer: At the age of? chase: Thirteen. Interviewer: And then you were in boarding school and graduated. Chase: I graduated from the military acadamy. Interviewer: And where did you go to college? Chase: I didn't go. Interviewer: You didn't go? Chase: I was entered in Dartmouth but if you know anything about children, you're up one year and you're way down, way down, the next. The year that I was supposed to go to Dartmouth, my father went busted on a big production from New York that went sour and he lost everything. He quit the show business then and he had no money. I had no money. I had my room all picked out. Interviewer: So what happened after this fiasco? Chase: Well, I taught school for a couple of years. Interviewer: You taught school? Chase: Yes, for a couple of years. 2 Interviewer: Where was this? Chase: This was up in New Hampshire. Interviewer: Who did you teach? Chase: I taught the smaller children history, language, arithmetic, spelling. Interviewer: How long were you a teacher? Chase: Two years. Interviewer: Two years. What age were you at that time? Chase: Oh, by the time I quit, I was 21. Interviewer: After that, where did you go? Chase: Then I went to work in New York City for my father. Interviewer: What did you do there? Chase: He had quit the show business as I told you a minute ago. For a couple of years, he lived off the royalties of the plays he had written. But those plays only last for a certain number of years and then the royalties cease so he went into the business in New York City of stable supplies. Back in those days, there were very few automobiles and trucks. It was nearly all horse-drawn everything and the stable supply business was a good business for a few years. Interviewer: Chase: Yes, that's right. Interviewer: How long were you in New York when you were with him? Chase: I was with him from 1906, 1905 or 1906, until I went down to Sugarloaf in 1910. Interviewer: You went to Sugarloaf in 1910? Chase: Um -hum, the Fall of 1910. In the Spring of 1910, my father 3 Chase: had started, my father and his brother, had started the (continued) Florida Keys Sponge and Fruit Company. They had bought Sugarloaf Key and that was to be the headquarters for growing and raising sponges. Interviewer: How much did they buy Sugarloaf Key for? Chase: I don't remember. Pretty cheap, I'll say that. Chase: Probably. I know who they bought it from but I don't know that the price was. They bought it from Dr. J. V. Harris of Key West. Interviewer: J. V. Harris. And he was of Key West? Chase: He was of Key West. Interviewer: One of the old Chase: He was one of the real characters. He was a veteran of the Civil War and he still wore his Southern uniform up til the day he died. He would walk around the streets of Key West with his grey uniform on. He was still a southerner. Interviewer: So from this Dr. Harris, they bought Sugarloaf Key. they didn't pay much over a buck an acre. Chase: I don't know what the price was but they bought all the land that was facing on the waters, on the bays. There are four bays in Sugarloaf. By owning all of the land that was facing on those bays, they could keep other people from coming in there because they owned the waterfront. Interviewer: Sure, because the people could not get into the Chase: That's right. 4 Interviewer No. 2: I understood they actually had a lease on the bays from the State of Florida. Chase: No. No. There was a law, there was a State of Florida law that protected them to have that right to keep the people out. Interviewer No. 2: Because they owned the land? Chase: Because they owned the land. That was the law that old Dr. Harris put through before my father and his brother bought this property and formed the Florida Keys Sponge and Fruit Company. Interviewer No. 1: So we can say that the community of Chase came into being in 1910? Chase: Yes, in the Spring of 1910. My father had spent a winter in Key West along about 1908. It was then that he became acquainted with Dr. Harris. The United States Government at that time was carrying on experiments in the growing of sponges artificially. They had a Dr. (I'll think of his name). He was the head of the United States Bureau of Fisheries. He was down there personally carrying on these experiments to see whether or not a sponge could be cut up into pieces, attached to something so it wouldn't float away and then grow into a permanent sponge. Well, when my father heard about this, and my father was more of a --well, I won't say he was a practical business man but a thing like that appealed to him. So, he gave the thing a lot S Chase: of thought and then finally in 1910, he and his (continued) brother, George, formed Interviewer: What was your father's name? Chase: My father's name was mine, Charles W. Chase. Interviewer: Sr.? Chase: Yes. Interviewer: George, then, is Chase: George Chase was his brother, that was my uncle. They formed this Florida Keys Sponge and Fruit Company. Well, at that time, business was not too good in the United States and my father was an Englishman. So was his brother. The Chase Family in England was a fairly prosperous family so my father decided that was going to go to England and see if he could sell stock in this company which he did, along about February, I would say, of 1910. He could see that this business that we were in in New York supplying stables was a thing that was beginning to peter out. He went to England and got in contact with his family over there and sold them on the idea of buying stock in this company. He sold enough stock, together with what he and his brother had already put into this thing to be able to start the thing going. He came back along about March 6 Chase: of 1910 and immediately went down to Key West and (continued) closed the final closing on the deal and he started this sponge growing business at Sugarloaf. At that time, there was no road and there was no railroad going through Sugarloaf. Interviewer: Was it still called Sugarloaf Key then? Chase: Oh yes, that was the name the government had given. Interviewer: Chase: I don't know. Interviewer No. 2: I had heard that it was because they raised these little Sugarloaf pineapples which is a small, sweet pineapple. That's the only thing I know. Chase: That's plausible because there have been pineapples grown there at one time before we took over. Interviewer No. 2: They're a Cuban pineapple of. a very sweet nature which were known as a Sugarloaf pineapple and still is today. Chase: Let's Interviewer No. 2: And then I understood that because of cheaper Cuban labor and better transportation from Cuba that their pineapple plantation went to the dogs. Chase: Uh-huh Interviewer: So then actually before the community of Chase, there was a pineapple industry there. Interviewer No. 2: That I don't know. Chase: We don't know. Interviewer No. 2: Legend has it. Chase: Yeah. Interviewer No. 2: That's right. I think that it's probably more than legend and probably could be traced. Chase: Now when my father went down there, the only thing that was on Sugarloaf was the small house that Dr. Harris had built and it was a house that was built up off the ground about six feet high. Interviewer No. What we call a stilt house today. Chase: Stilt house. Yes. It burned down a couple of years ago, about four or five years ago, I guess it was. That was the only thing that was there except the railroad previous to my father going down there. had a camp there for the men that were building the road. There was one long shack with a roof but the sides were only partially upthat was a dining room and there was one other little house that they had for people to live in. So, my father began immediately building the place up. What I say is, he built the office building which is now the same building that's down there, you know that two-story building? Interviewer No. 2: Oh yes. Interviewer No. 1: The one with the on it? Chase: Yes. Interviewer No. 2: That's what we have turned into two apartments that some of the people who work there use. 7 8 Chase: Well, that was originally the office building downstairs and there were one, two, three bedrooms upstairs. Now, the whole thing is enclosed but at that time, it was an open porch that ran all around the house, upstairs and down. Interviewer No. 1: Is that what they call them, the widow's walk? Interviewer No. 2: No. Widow's walk was up on top where you have this little tower today. Chase: Yeh Interviewer No. 2: And these were porches which have since been enclosed into the building, I gather. Now that tower that's there today, that was originally built in the Summer of 1910, Summer Chase: and early Fall, but it was half again as high or higher than it is now. That upper half blew off in the hurricane of 1910. I saw it going when I was there. Interviewer No. 1: So then one of the first events that greeted your formation of the community of Chase was the hurricane. Chase: Well after I had been there just about one month. Interviewer No. 2: Well, I think maybe the first event might have been the greeting by mosquitos. Chase: (Laughs.) You said that. Now, at the time of that hurricane, we had about I would say close to, between 60 and 80 colored people working for us there, clearing up and building some roads and everything. The hurricane, with the 9 Chase: wind that was behind it, blew the water right (continued) down into those bays and the railroad at that time had no openings. So the water blew in and naturally it backed up water and where that house is now and those other places, the water came up about this high. So we didn't know, we knew nothing about Interviewer No. It's done that since. Chase: It has? Interviewer No. Yeh. Chase: Well, we knew nothing about hurricanes so we had all the colored people come to my father's house and stay on the porch all night long. The hurricane busted up I imagine about four or five o'clock in the morning but it started in about four o'clock the previous afternoon. That was my first impression of Sugarloaf Key. Interviewer No. 2: That's a rough welcoming. Chase: Yeh. Interviewer No. 2: Your transporation was largely by scooner? Chase: Well, our transportation --we had anywhere from to two to three launches they called them there. Interviewer No. 1: Launches? Chase: Launch. L -A -U -N -C -H. Interviewer No. 2: They call them yachts today. Chase: Yes but they were smaller than what a yacht would be. They were boats I would imagine about 30 ,feet long and 10 Chase: we used them entirely to go to Key West and get (continued) our supplies and go down there to get a haircut or someting. Interviewer No. 2: Were they powered or sail? Chase: They were power. Interviewer No. 2: A littl,gasoline Chase: We used to have to go out through that, where it comes in, you go straight out from the Chase: That was done by the railroad so that they could get in there with Interviewer No. 2: I always thought that was a natural creek until Chase: No. Interviewer No. 2: Until really I saw these pictures you have here. Chase: No. Before that, the only way to get in there was through what we used to call Five -Mile Creek. That was Interviewer No. 2: Well, it's still called that Five -Mile Creek, I think. Chase: No, it isn't five miles long but we called it that and it winded in and out aad everything. Well, the railroad, that was impossible for them because they had to have these big dredges and things to come in there. So they cut that passage through and then that let them into the bay. 11 Interviewer No. 1: What happened after the hurricane? Were any people killed during the hurricane? Chase: Oh no, nobody was killed, nobody was injured. Interviewer No. 1: You resumed business after the hurricane? Chase: Oh sure, as the water went down, we Interviewer,No. 1: How did the business go? Did the sponges turn out to multiply by cutting them up? Chase: Well, up to that time, no sponges had been started to grow. It was a case of getting everything ready so that they would have something to work with, getting a place to manufacture the concrete discs that the sponges are planted on, getting orders for the colored people, all of that. It was that Fall of 1910 when we first sent our group of regular sponge, men sponges, out into the bays down around Marathon and those places. North of Marathon was a great natural sponge ground in those days. That's where they got practically all of the sponges that would come into Key West and be sold. Interviewer No. 2: I didn't know that. Chase: Yes. Interviewer No. 1: Is that what they call it, a sponge ground? Chase: Yes. Sponging ground. We had a scooner with about 40 men on it that we sent up there and they would (,:case: (=ontiuued) ::ntervi racer: '.;hare: Ian te- -==w= 12 stay right on board and then we would supply them by these launches with food and necessary items and go up there and tow a apparatus that was in the water so that we could bring the sponges back in the water while they were still alive because you have to cut them up while they're still alive or they won't regrow. So, it was along about I'd say November or December that we started first to do our first cutting up and planting of sponges. Now, you take a sponge about that big and we would cut that up into about eight or ten pieces. So, one sponge would grow into eight or ten sponges, fastened to these discs that you see the pictures of. (unintelligible) Yes, originally it was thought that you could cut up a sponge, oh, just about the size of this. And, where it could get to be about that big, so it was a commercial sponge, fit for use. This would take at least four years. Well, then, how many years were you in the business? obask. I was done there from 1910 until the Spring of 1916. By that time, the sponge farm was no longer operating because of the fact that the money to operate this sponge farm came from England, as I told you. And the subsequent money kept coming Interviewer: 13 from England, because neither my father or his brother knew very much about local financing or local people who would be interested in, but the English people were very much interested. And they would keep sending money over about every six months to keep the thing going. Well, when the war broke out in 1914, in the Summer of 1914, my father and his brother and their wives had gone over to England that Spring to have a meeting with the stockholders over there, and to keep the money coming back. While they were there, the war broke out. Well, as soon as the war broke out, that stopped all money coming out of England; that stopped all money coming to the sponge farm. We had to fire practically all the colored people, just kept one or two there to keep the place up. And my father stayed on, thinking and hoping that the war will end and it will start up again, it will end and start up again, but it didn't, and by 1916, the Spring of 1916 . . . oh, in the meantime, about 1915, I had gone into the cigar -making business in Key West. But I soon found out that I didn't know anything about cigar -making, so while I was still not ahead and not behind, just about even, I decided that I'd quit that. It was in 1915 that you quit? 14 Chase: It was in 1916 that I quit the cigar business. Interviewer: May I ask this: Wasn't there also a lot of problems with poachers on the sponge? Chase: Yes, we had some problems, but, while we had a good sized force there, and could police the place, we kept them down pretty good. I've shot at them many . . . I was a deputy sheriff, and supposed to keep law and order. Interviewer: That largely meant keep out the poachers. Chase: That's right. Interviewer: I understood that people had been killed in the old days down there over sponges. Chase: I never heard of anybody getting killed. I've shot at people, and I've had them stand in front of me and I'd shoot down in the ground and scare them. Interviewer: To get the sponges out, did people have to dive into water? Chase: No, because the water down there is shallow; it's not over six feet deep anywhere. Interviewer: A lot of it's two, three, four feet deep. Chase: Yes. Interviewer: They go along in a boat with a little hook on a pole, and steer a little outboard motor with their legs standing on the front of the boat, and then hook 'em off with this little knife. Chase: On this pole is an iron, three -pronged hook, and they get that right underneath the sponge, pull it 15 Chase (continued): up, and pull it off its foundation. Interviewer: Here's a real naive question: Is the sponge an animal or a plant? Chase: It's a plant. Interviewer: I would have thought it was an animal. Chase: Well, when I say it's a plant, I can't understand why it would be an animal, because it can only move while its a seed, and it's got to fasten itself onto something. Interviewer: Yes, but so do clams and oysters.. . I don't know . . Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: I don't know either, but I always looked upon it as a plant. Now, after they shut down they only had about two or three people to look out for the place. Then, the thieves did come in, especially at night- time, and the sponges, as they would be maturing, these thieves swiped the place almost clean. So there was no income from being able to sell the sponges, there was no income coming from England, but . . You never did anything with fruit? We experimented in a small way; we experimented with sisal plants in a small way. We soon found out that the price of labor -- you couldn't do that profitably. And then we experimented in a small way with limes, but never to any great extent. Well, now tell me this: You told me you had the one sponge factory which was about where our present motel and office are, and then later to plant in Interviewer (cont.): Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: 16 the other bay, you built a sponge factory out where our house is today. That's correct. The original walls of our house were poured in 1914 in the factory where they made these old sponge discs, and our swimming pool is the aggregate pit where these sponges came from. Correct. We had practically filled up the bay where the restaurant is. So we then moved down into that other bay, but it was too costly to tow the discs down to that other bay to have a place to concentrate on. That was why we built that place down there. And we had quarters to keep them in down there. We kept about twenty men down there day and night, fed them and every- thing. Well, we went there in 1950 and there was still the remains of a little tram railroad that went own into the rockpit and some of the rusty old concrete mixers which date back to 1914. That's correct. And that pit was dug to give the material to make the concrete discs out of. How big was the community of Chase in 1916? In 1916 it consisted of my father, my stepmother, and one man. What was the biggest it got to be? 17 Chase: Oh, the biggest it got to be . . . at one time we had between 80 and 100 colored people there. Interviewer: And their families also? Chase: Well, when you say their families . . . there was only one of them that had a wife there -- the others were all men and no women. He had a wife and two daughters. But that was in the height of the thing, along about 1912 to 1914. Interviewer: What buildings were there then, besides the house and . . Interviewer: Maybe some of those pictures will . . . I don't know anything about these, anyway. Chase: This picture was taken . . . you know where there is a little opening at present where the highway goes? Interviewer: Harris Gap bridge, probably. Chase: Yes, well, they caught -this swordfish -- that's a swordfish -- Interviewer: Sawfish. Chase: Sawfish, I mean, yeah. Right there (tape garbled) that bridge. Now, this was -- oh, this is one of the boats the Florida East Coast used to house their men when they were building the road. Interviewer: You were down there when the railroad went through, weren't you? Chase: Oh, yes. It was February of 1912. Interviewer: And then there were the men from the railroad also living there. Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: 18 Well, they weren't there all the time. They would be moved about. You see, the railroad was built in pieces. It wasn't built all in one straight line, it was built in pieces. They brought this boat in, and I'd say it was there for maybe six months. And it kept a crew of workers there. One day I had to arrest a man that had cut another man's throat. I was deputy sheriff, and they came running over tothe offices (that white building), and they said, "My God, there's a guy gone crazy nuts over there, he's just cut another guy's throat. We want him arrested. So I had to arrest him. (There is a section of tape a speed too fast to transcribe.) . . . much more recent years, in the early 1950's, failed to show up for work Monday morning. I asked why, and he said, "Well, he got cut last night." "Well, was he cut badly?" "He was cut wide, deep, and forever." Now, you know where there is a restaurant there, and the motel and everything? Well, that is right where this is. The highway and the road comes right here, and the railroad. And this is where we made the first discs, when we planted in this bay. What do you call that building? Well, we used to call it the disc house, because that's where we made these concrete discs. 19 Interviewer: Today we call our own house the sponge house. Chase: Oh, do you really? Now, this picture was taken -- you were talking about railroad -- this picture was taken when we had this all decorated for the first train that went through. It had a flag flying, and there's bunting all along here. And that was for the purpose of -- as the train would pass by they would see this place all lighted up and here was our name, Chase, the name of the town. Interviewer: So the disc house was at the site of the present- day . . . Chase: The first disc house . . . The second disc house Interviewer: In the motel office building area. Chase: Yeah. Now, they've filled in all back in here, you know, to where they are now, but . . Interviewer: We didn't fill in too much. We dug out more than we filled in. Chase: Yeah. Well, there was land right over here, and that's where that place is now. Now, these are the boats I was telling you about that we would go down to Key West in. Interviewer: The launches. Chase: Yeah, the launches. This is my father --the one with the hat on. Interviewer: Are you in any of these? 20 Chase: No, I'm not in any of these. This is me, by the way, walking along with a Great Dane dog. Interviewer: What's the name of the dog? Chase: King. K -I -N -G. Interviewer: Will it be possible for them to borrow these pictures? Ghase: If you will promise me you'll see that they're returned. Interviewer: I promise me that I'll raise hell with them if they don't. Chase: O.K. Now, this is me, planting a sponge. Here's the disc in the air. See it? Interviewer: Oh, yeah, with the little piece of sponge on it? Chase: There's the little piece of sponge right on it. Interviewer: That was aluminum wire you used, wasn't it? Chase: Aluminum wire. The first ones . . Interviewer: Can I put a number on this photo on the back? Chase: Yep. Let me tell you one . . . here're the discs, see them? There're the discs, and here's the man reaching in the bucket to get a little sponge, about Interviewer: this size. . • And this man's wiring . . Chase: And this man's wiring it on, and I'm doing the planting. That is, I wasn't the only one that did the planting, but in this picture I'm doing the planting. And here's another picture of the same thing, where the disc is hitting the water. Interviewer: Those are good pictures for those days. It stopped the action. Interviewer: 21 Interviewer: They surely did. Look at here, the water splashing. Is that . . . Chase: Here's the disc and here's the sponge, see? And we would plant them so that we would plant about, oh, five or six out in a straight line. Then we would move about six feet and start another line this way. Then, when we had finished the lenght of this barge, we would get up and here are the poles that we would do like this, and move down another section. Interviewer: There are still some commercial spongers operating in the bay, primarily back of the motel there. They have maybe 24 or 30 foot old launches which they just live on, and then they fish out of these in their little dinghies with maybe a two-horse motor, you know. Chase: That's the sponge barge. . . the sponge-planting barge. And this barge consists of four pontoons. There's a pontoon here, and there's another one on the other side. You can see that other stick over there, that pole. We would do the cutting right in here, where it would be somewhat in the shade, and then pass the sponges out in buckets of water, and here the men are starting to pass them on to the discs. Interviewer: We'd like to borrow them all, if we can. Chase: Now: Here's the building old Dr. Harris originally built and it was that plus dining hall -- it was just a long building with a roof on it. 22 Interviewer: Was that this? Chase: No. This my father added to Dr. Harris' house. And underneath here was the store, the community store. Upstairs was a large, very large, living room which was my father's in connection with this house. My father and his wife lived in -- they slept in -- this front bedroom here, and my bed- room was right there. Interviewer: So that's the old Harris house and community store? Chase: That's right. And you can see it's built up from the ground. Interviewer: Is that about where Perky built his house later? Interviewer: Perky's house is in , a quarter mile from the road. Chase: Perky's house is a concrete house that I built for myself. Interviewer: Oh, I see. Chase: And that burned down, also. Interviewer: That burned down only shortly before 1950. Chase: Yes, some people who were down there -- engineers for the highway, I think -- they were living in there, with Perky's consent, and for some reason or other they set the place on fire. But this was the annex to my father's house. Interviewer: And this was right down near the road, again? Chase: This house was there when you first saw it, wasn't it? 23 Interviewer: I don't remenber it. The only buildings that were there when we came down were the old Perky Lodge. Chase: Yeah, now wait a minute. Maybe . . . Here is what is now that house that's all been closed in. Well, you went right straight down this road, and this was my father's house right there. And this was the place where we did all of our boat repairs. We had some ways that you could haul a boat out on. Interviewer: Well, there's still a jetty running out there. There was an old dock that we tore out, but filled it up with rock just as a jetty. Interviewer: What's this building here? Chase: Now, that's the one building besides the building of Dr. Harris -- this was the only other building that was there, and that was where Dr. Harris' colored used to live. They called it the Yamacraw. What that's supposed to mean I don't know. Interviewer: Yamacar? Chase: Yamacraw. This is from the Bahamas or something. Interviewer: How do you spell that? Chase: Well, I would say, Y -A -M -A -C -R -A -W. The Yamacraw. And they were moving it from over to about here. Interviewer: And they could move their Yamacraw? Chase: Yeah. Now, this is my father's brother, George. And he's being rowed around one of the bays there to see something, I don't know what. Interviewer: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: 24 I bet Nixon Smiley could do something on this. I don't know whether he's a Key's Well, we'll have to talk to him. Now, here's where we had a celebration on the fourth of July. The fourth of July in 1913. I was just fascinated the first time Mr. Chase and I talked about these things. I've been waiting a long time to get this all together. From the bay there was dock, and then you'd walk right down this street, and at the end of this street was my father's house. And this is the house where the porches have now been enclosed. And opposite them were two small little houses that some white men lived in, some white help. And this was that boat house that I told you about that you can yeah, uh.huh. That was the fourth of July of what year? 1913. And we were having a celebration that day. We had a crowd of colored people there, and we had running games and here they are -- we were having running games that's right. And here's the man that I told you I'd like to have some of those folders of that now lives in England. He was a young Englishman. He was an investor there. Came over to watch some of his money work. Well, and good work. He worked for us there for four years. His name was Gent. Now, one day -- Chase (cont.): Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: 25 this was while the railroad was being built in sections -- and there was a section from Sugarloaf up to Cudjoe, so -- this was on a Sunday -- and the head engineer asked us would we like to go up and see how the railroad was being built. So he sent a couple of handcars down to Sugarloaf, and here the different people that were living on Sugarloaf at the time -- this is the lady that my father married -- and this was . . . Not your mother? No, not my mother. My mother was dead long ago. And here are two or three other ladies, and they took this handcar and pushed it up and down, and took us up to Cudjoe's. It was an unspoiled day. Now, here was another Sunday. And here's the man who was in charge of the people who were building the railroad. His name was Mr. Cook. And where you saw that swordfish being hung up, remember there was a big . Well, that was the camp, right there at Sugarloaf as you were coming from Miami. Interviewer: At the end there. Chase: Yeah, at the end. And he . . . Interviewer: What year was that picture taken? Chase: Which one? Interviewer: The one right in front of us. 26 Chase: Both of these -- 1913. This fourth of July thing was 1913, but this was about Summer of 1911. And this was also the Summer of 1911. This picture was taken down on Sugarloaf on the ocean front. This is the ocean front along here. And this Mr. Cook . . Interviewer: The one with the railroad. Chase: Yeah, he . . Interviewer: Where was the sandy beach there? Chase: Here it is. Interviewer: This may be down at what is called Sugaloa now. It's a nice beach. Chase: Yeah, this was a beach, and it was a crescent- shaped place. Interviewer: A beautiful beach; it's still there. Chase: Well, this is it. And this is my father, this is myself, . . Interviewer: It's S-U-G-A-L-O-A. It belongs to Knox Julian, who's a Washington lobbyist; it's for sale now. (blank segment on tape which picks up at:) Interviewer: . . . change with weather conditions. Chase: Now this was the very first place where they started cutting up the sponges, before the disc house had been built. Before any of the rafts had been built. And this was in the very late summer of 1910. This is my father. And this is right near where the dock was, right there in front of the two-story building. Now . . 27 Interviewer: I don't think that the Bates gave us these pictures down there; they did give us some, and we appreciate them very much, but I've never seen this of cutting up the live sponge. But they did grow feasibly on those discs. Chase: Oh, very well. Interviewer: That disc was designed to make it the proper com- mercial size, you know, to bring the best price. Chase: Now, here is a better picture of Dr. Harris' house. The other picture was taken this way, looking at the extension, you know. And this was the house as Dr. Harris had built it, where my father moved Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: in . . And the way you saw it when you came . . That's right, and where I used -- that was my bedroom here, this is my father's bedroom, and it was up so hogh that the high water never touched the inside of the house. When did you build your own house there? I built my own house -- that's the concrete house down closer to the railroad track -- in the Spring nd Summer of 1913. And that was quite a ways back from the raiload track, thought. Oh, yes. I would imagine about half -way between. . 28 Interviewer: The big slab is still there where that was. Chase: I was down there about two or three months ago, and got out and there was the slab. Interviewer: Oh, I didn't know you were down, and went through the whole town and things. Chase: Well, I had to go down on a very urgent matter, and I didn't have time to stop, and . . Interviewer: Oh, I'm so sorry; the people there would have taken you to show you what we've done to the old sponge house, and taken you all through the motel and restaurant. If I ever come down again . . You be sure, now. O.K. Now, you remember that picture we saw here where they were all sitting on this. Well, this was the boat that Mr. Cook, the railroad man, -- this was the boat that he supplied for us to go down there. Interviewer: Now, how did you get there from where you were, Chase: Interviewer: Chase: 'cause this is on the ocean side? Chase: Well, we went up to the . Interviewer: Through the railroad cut? Chase: No, up to the end of where Sugarloaf, and next over to Interviewer: Chase: Cudjoe. And came down through . . And then we came from -- that's where we got on this boat, and then we went down out to the outside 29 Chase (cont.): and landed on the ocean front. Interviewer: Can you tell me when that canal to the ocean was dug? Chase: You mean in the bay? Interviewer: From the bay to the ocean there's a canal that . . Chase: Oh, that was a natural opening when we got there. Interviewer: No, there is a natural opening, but I'm talking about from the bay where the new sponge house was out to the ocean. Chase: No, that was . . Interviewer: There was a straign cut there with piles of rocks put on each side, and I was told it was dug by an old steam drag line -- maybe by Perky. Chase: It may have been dug when they put the first highway through -- not the present highway, but the early first one, and . . Interviewer: Well, that road is still there. And it has a bridge over this cut that I'm talking about. Chase: Well, then they were the ones that must have dug that channel, because the only other channel out of Sugarloaf into the ocean was that little winding one down at the end. . Interviewer: I know what you mean, it was put . . Interviewer: Was this where the men had gone out on a . . . Chase: Yes, now, we're taking the men out to put them on the schooner, and the schooner takes them on up to the sponging grounds, up around Big Pine Key, Summer - land, Marathon, and all those others. 30 Interviewer: And they were going there to get sponges? Chase: They were going up to hook sponges and bring them up and put them in these places in the water, in a kind of a tube where the water kept going through so they wouldn't die. And here we are taking them out to the schooner. There is Sugarloaf as it was in its heyday, and at that time it was called "Chase." Interviewer: "Chase." I can't locate this according to the present land . . Interviewer: This building right here is that two-story white building with a little tower on it. And there's a little dock out from that -- just a pier today. Back by our shops, in other words. Interviewer: I know where it is now. Chase: And that building originally had these open porches all around it, which have now been closed in, and become a part. Now, the winter before the railroad opened, there was a group of the directors and president of Florida East Coast Railroad came down on an inspection trip, and they stopped at Chase. This was in 1911, and they came down, stopped at Chase, and came over to see us, and we walked all around the place. And that's when they gave the name of this place "Chase," 'cause it was my father. So it was called "Chase" until Perky changed it to "Perky." Interviewer: What happened after 1916? 31 Chase: Well, by 1917; my father had then disposed of the property I think to Perky. Interviewer: R.C. Perky and he was -- what -- land manager for the Florida East Coast? Chase: I don't know what his -- I know he was connected in some way with the Tatum brothers. Interviewer: What was his full name? Chase/Interviewer: R.C. Perky. P -E -R -K -Y. Chase: And he was also connected with the Tatum brothers, who were big real estate people back in those days. Interviewer: I've been told, and it could be checked, I suppose, that he was in charge of land acquisition for the Florida East Coast Railroad. Chase: I don't believe that. But he was very much in prominence with the Tatum people, because I knew the man who was in charge of acquisition of land, and the acquiring, holding, and selling of land for the Florida East Coast Railroad, and it wasn't Perky. Interviewer: The story I got was that Perky acquired land for the railroad, and if it were particularly good land, he acquired it for himself. Chase: Well . . . Here's a very dim and very bad picture of the living room of the house that I built. And there was a dining room just out beside that, and then there was another bedroom, and a bathroom, and then my bedroom. And then over here was the kitchen. 32 Interviewer: When we came here this was not there, but the old Sugarloaf Lodge buildings -- or Perky Lodge buildings -- were there. The big building and the . . . Chase: You mean what's still there now? Interviewer: No, I don't, I mean it was a big restaurant building and bar and all of that. Chase: Hey! Down where the present restaurant is? Interviewer: No, it was back -- and not too far away -- from this two-story building. Right behind the two-story building was a long row of small bedrooms which were for the help of the lodge, and then there was the big lodge building which had rooms and a large restaurant. And then there was another building that had about three . . . Chase: Oh: Oh: That was my father's house turned into that. Interviewer: Well, that was probably the smaller one, and that's where my father and brothers and I used to stay when we went down in the early 1950's. Chase: Well,there was one large room there, wasn't there? Interviewer: Yes. Chase: Well, that large room was the addition my father built on that I showed you the pictures of. Interviewer: Oh, yeah. Chase: And the three or four bedrooms -- didn't they have a bar or something? Interviewer: Well, then they had another big building, a much bigger building, and two great big concrete cisterns. Chase: Well, those cisterns are the same cisterns that my father built. Interviewer: We tore one of them down, and the other one we're using today as emergency supply in case the pipeline 33 Interviewer (cont.): failed, you know, due to a storm or anything. Chase: Well, all of our buildings were hooked up with that large cistern so that the water from all those build- ings ran into that, and that was our chief source of water. Interviewer: The community of Chase ceased to be in 1917. Chase: As a community it really ceased right, oh, I'd say in the end of 1914 because the money had stopped coming in then, and it was just a place to guard what was already there. There was no more sponge planting after 1914, but this man, Perky, he was very much interested in it, and he got some people interested in . . Interviewer: Well, you went out after the war, didn't you? Chase: Yes, well, I could see there was no money coming in at Sugarloaf, and I had to do something else, so I brought the first Chevrolet agency into Key West that they ever had there. In fact, they had never seen a Chevrolet. Interviewer: I'll be darn. Interviewer: When was this? Chase: This was in 1916. I had an uncle who lived in Chicago, and he wrote me a letter and said he had just bought an automobile and it was a Chevrolet, and what a nice thing it was and everything, so I had little money, not very much, and so I went down to Key West to see if I could make a living down there Chase (cont.): Interviewer: 34 buying and selling sponges down at the public sponge dock. So I wanted to have an automobile -- I hadn't ever owned an automobile, so I thought, well, now, if I can get the agency for this thing -- 'cause they had never seen a Chevrolet in Key West -- I can get it cheap, and buy it at a discount. So I wrote off to the Chevrolet people, and told them I would like to have the agency, thinking I could buy one car and get the agency, see, so the guy comes down from Atlanta -- that was their southern headquarters -- and he looked me up and so he said, "O.K., you can get the agency, kid, but you have to buy three cars to start with." Well, I didn't have enough money to buy three cars, but I wanted a car, so, when you're young, you know, you do things that you don't do later on, so I said, "O.K., give me some pictures, some printed matter, and while my cars are being shipped down I'll sell the other two." So that's how I started'the agency. And I had to go down to Key West selling these things from pictures. See, they'd never seen a Chevrolet. You had some pretty cautious people down there, too. Chase: Well, I don't know how they were, but I finally got deposits on two more cars. One was an ice man, and one was one of the Gattos, of the Gatto cigar people. Interviewer: Eloise Gatto is secretary for my lawyer in Key West for some time, and now works for Dickson DeJarnis (?). 35 Chase: Who's your lawyer? Interviewer: Here or down there? Chase: Down there. Interviewer: Down there was Paul Sawyer. Chase: Oh, yeah. Interviewer: Bernie Papy's nephew. Chase: Yeah. . . So anyhow, all of the sudden the telephone rings one day and the fella who was the agent for the Florida East Coast said, "Pete," he said, "there's a shipment of automobiles in here for you, there's three cars. You'd better come on over." So I went on over and I had my money, -- back in those days, an automobile sold for $490.00 -- plus freight. So he says, "well, wait a minute." He says, "This is a bill of lading and tax." He says, "There's three cars there. You can't get those cars unless you pay up all three of them." So I said, "Johnny, I haven't got enough money, but I've got two of them sold." And I said, "I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you enough money for just one car. Keep the cars in the boxcar. Let me take out one, and I'll take that car and sell it to the ice man, and I'll get his money. Then I'll come back and give you enough money to get the one to sell to Mr. Gatto and then I'll take out the third car. So that's the way I started in business. Interviewer: I'll be darned! Chase: Interviewer: And that was in 1916, well, when I went down to Key West. Turning that back, you were about 30 or 31. 36 Chase: Let's see -- I was -- around 30 or 31, yeah. Anyhow, before I ever went to Sugarloaf, I belonged to the Naval Militia in New York City -- the old First Batallion. It was quite a nice outfit. So . . in 1916 they had a Naval Militia outfit, and so I was interested in it. So I joined it, as an ensign, of course never thinking we were going to have a war. This was just a pleasure thing, you had a lot of fun, get a cruise every summer. And then the war breaks out. And I did have a cruise, and I had a brother- in-law . . . well, he was a nice fellow, but a poor businessman, and I left my agency with him. I had sold about sixteen automobiles, in the meantime. So I left the agency with him, and he never sold a single automobile, and before I got back they'd taken the agency away from him (or from me), and by the time I got back from war I had no agency, I had no job, I had nothing. So that's what I was doing in Key West in 1916 and 17. Interviewer: And then what? Chase: Well, then I went off to the war, and when I came back in the summer of 1919, no agency, no nothing, no job. I finally went to work for $25.00 a week for a firm that imported molasses from Cuba -- Chase (cont.): Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: 37 bring it in in shiploads, you know, in bulk, and then pump it out and pump it into railroad cars and ship it up to New York. And that's what I was doing when Carl Fisher happened to land down there. When was that? Oh, let's see -- I had joined the Rotary Club just a little bit before. . In Key West? Yes. In 1916 -- when I went down there -- I joined the Rotary Club. While I was gone in the war they still kept my membership up for me, and when I got back I was still a member. So when I got back they said, "Well, now listen, the secre- tary of this club, he's been moved (he was a telephone manager) he's been moved to someplace up in Georgia, and the gang says you're not doing a damn thing, you got nothin' to do, so how about you bein' the secretary with no pay?" So I said O.K. Well, I kinda liked the job, and it was a lot of fun, I put some life into it and everything, and so anyhow one day -- oh, it was along about December 1920 -- somebody said at the Rotary Club, "Oh, if we could only get Carl Fisher to come to Key West; if we could just get Carl Fisher to come down here and see what Key West looks like." 'Course, then half of Key West was all wilderness. "He'd fall in love with the place." Chase (cont.): Interviewer: 38 Well, I had met Carl Fisher in Key West, when he came down on a boat trip. Just met him to say, "Hello," and everything, so, like a damn fool I said, "I'll get the guy: I'll get 'im; I can get 'im." So they said, "You can?" I said, "Sure, I can get 'im." So they said, "O.K., kid, you're elected. You go get 'im now, you're so damn smart." Carl Fisher is the . . . Chase: He's the big developer of Miami Beach. (unintelligible dialogue among the three) So I was sorry that I said it, but anyhow I had to make good, so anyhow, I wrote him a letter and told him that Key West had never had a good big boat race and everything, and if he would have a boat race from Miami Beach to Key West we'd have a big celebration down there, and we'd have the Commandant shoot the big guns off when the boats would come around, and we'd have the Navy band out and dress up the town, and everything. And he writes back and says, "O.K." So, he came down; he, Gar Wood, and another man -- a three -boat race. And so we did, we had a real celebration. Back in those days, strangers were strangers in Key West, and a stranger was looked upon as the most welcome guy you have, you know. No matter what you were or anything. So we really gave them a good, big time down there. 39 Interviewer: Who did he race down there? Chase: He raced with Gar Wood. Have you heard of Gar Wood? Interviewer: He's very famous in the boating circles. Interviewer: What is it? Chase: G -A -R, that's Gar. and then Wood, W -0-0-D. Interviewer: A great engineer, and . . Chase: A big inventor -- he invented this truck that turns itself up and everything, and shoots out. Interviewer: Yeah, the dump truck. Chase: He's a very wealthy man, he's got a big place over on Fisher Island, the old Vanderbilt home. Well, anyhow -- Interviewer: He's still alive, isn't he? Chase: Oh, yeah, yeah. Interviewer: But a very old man, I would think. Chase: Yeah, he's in his eighties. Interviewer: So you talked Carl Fisher into racing Gar Wood down to Key West? Chase: Gar Wood and another man. Another man named Gordon Hammersley. He was a very famous boat racer in those days, and very wealthy. Interviewer: What was his last name? Chase: Hammersley. H -A -M -M -E -R -S -L -E -Y. Gordon Hammersley. He was a big shot in the 400 society, and very wealthy man. And these were not little open boats; these were express cruisers that could go outside, you know. So anyhow, I was delegated to sell Fisher on coming Chase (cont.): Interviewer: Chase: 4Q down there. They gave me that job. So we took him out to the end of island, now, just where you'd go over into Boca Chica? There was no bridge over to Boca Chica then, and it was all open and wild and everything, so we got them out there and I gave him my spiel about Key West, the most beautiful climate in the world -- it had never known frost. Look at this beautiful water. You know how colored it is, different colors and everything close to shore. So we gave him the spiel, and so he says, "What are you doing tonight?" I said, "I'm not doing anything." And he says, "Come on around to the hotel." That was the first year the Casa Marina opened. Oh, yeah. That used to be a beautiful Flagler hotel. Oh, that was the swellest Flagler hotel in the . . . (unintelligible dialogue) So he says they were staying overnight -- he and Wood and Hammersley. So he said, "What 'cha doin' tonight?" And I said, "Not a thing." So he said, "How about coming down to the hotel. I want to talk to you." So I said, "Sure." So I went back to the Rotary Club, and said, "Fellas, we got the guy! He's sold, he's fallen for it. He wants to see me and talk some more." So I went there that night, and waited out in the lobby until he came out from dinner, and when he came out from dinner I walked up to him, "Mr. Fisher?" "Yes?" "I'm the guy you said to come around to see you." Chase (cont.): Interviewer: Chase: Interviewer: Chase: 41 He said, "Oh, yeah, yeah. Come over here and sit down." So I went over and sat down, and he said, "What 'cha doin' in this town?" And I said, "Well, I'm in the molasses -shipping business." He said, "Are you married to the job?" And I said, "What do you mean by 'married' to it?" Well, he said, "Do you have to live with it forever?" I said, "No, why?" He says, "Well, how'd you like to come and go to work for me?" What a turnabout: I tell you, I was sick! (unintelligible dialogue) So I said, "What you want me to do?" Well, at that time he was just developing this place, you know. Pumping it in, and putting in sidewalks and streets and building hotels, and I said, "What do you want me to do?" He says, "Well, if we're planting houses, you plant the houses. If we're planting grass, you plant the grass. If we're entertaining visitors, you entertain the visitors. And if a mule dies, you bury the mule!" So -- I didn't know what to think. So I said, "What do you pay?" "How much you makin' now?" Well, by that time I was making $150 a month. That wasn't too bad -- that was pretty good. No, but, even then I said to myself, "If I tell this guy I'm making only $150 a month -- that's a little over $25 a week -- he'll think I'm no good." So I looked him right in the eye and told him the only 42 Chase (cont.): lie I ever told in my life. I looked right at him and said, "I make $300 a month." So he looked at me. So he said, "I'll tell you what I'll do." He says, "I'll pay you $300 a month for six months, and at the end of the six months," he says, "I'll either raise you, or, damn you, I'll fire you." And that's how I came to work for Carl Fisher. Interviewer: And then really that was your life from . . Chase: Oh, from then on. Interviewer: That was about 1919? Chase: That was the end of '20, and I came to work in March of '21. And, of course, the Beach was 641 people, that was the total population. Interviewer: What was the population of Key West at that time? Chase: Oh, Key West -- Key West used to go up and down. At one time Key West was the biggest city in the state of Florida, bigger than Jacksonville -- 25,000 people before Jacksonville. Interviewer: It had 25,000 when Miami had 5,000. Chase: Yeah. And then after the First World War, it started going down and down and down. . Interviewer: How come it was so big? Interviewer: Shipping. Chase: Shipping -- sponges, cigars. Interviewer: It was the southeast corner of the United States. Chase: Yeah, and the big cigar . . 43 Interviewer: Two forts, you know, like the old fort that's at Dry Tortugas. But East and West Martello Towers were old brick forts of the Civil War. Chase: So anyhow . . Interviewer: Let me ask you: Have you talked to Charley Whitehead? Chase: Yes . . Interviewer: He's a very good friend of mine, you know. Chase: Well, Mrs Fisher -- Jane who just died -- she asked me to come up to her house, because she's starting to write a new book, and he is helping her to write the book. So they wanted some of the old facts about Miami Beach back in its early days, and things like that. And she said, "Would you come up?" there because she was going to have a man and his wife come there, and he was going to have one of these things to take this conversation down. So I went up there. And we had a very pleasant afternoon, talking over early Miami Beach So we couldn't get through by the time I had to leave, so they made an appointment to come here to my house a week later. So we all sat around this same table. Interviewer: Well, you know Charley Whitehead is one of my very closest friends, and I wasn't aware that he was writing this book. Chase: I called him on the telephone yesterday, and I said, "Charley, I want to thank you for that nice article you wrote about Jane Fisher." I said, "I think that 44 Chase (cont.): was a beautiful job you did." And it was. He wrote what was fact, and he wrote it beautifully, and then he wrote another little article Monday also. Interviewer: Yeah, I read them both. Interviewer: Charley's a very good writer. Chase: And a nice fellow. Well, anyhow, I came up here in March of '21. That was about a couple of months later, so at that time Fisher had his office over here on the northwest corner of Lincoln and Washington, where that fruit store man is. Interviewer: Knowles? Chase: No, Knowles is on Meridian and Lincoln. . . . Cobb. Interviewer: Cobb, yes. Chase: Well, Fisher had his office there then, and Fisher had a street car line; Fisher built a street car line from Miami over here to Miami Beach back in those days because you couldn't get anybody to come over here. Very few people,especially northerners, had automobiles. And the real estate men over in Miami -- they knocked Miami Beach as much as they could knock it. They said, "Don't go to that place," he says. "It's full of snakes and mosquitos and alligators." Yeah: So Fisher built this street car line -- little dinky street cars they were -- but they'd hold about 30 people. And so I went over to his office on the street car line, went to his office and went upstairs and asked for Mr. Fisher, and his secretary said, "Well, he's in his private office. Chase (cont.): 45 He's busy right now. Sit down." So I sat there -- oh, I must have sat there for a couple of hours -- but by and by he came out of his private office and I stepped up to him and said, "Mr. Fisher?" And he said, "Yeah?" And I said, "My name's Chase." and he said, "Huh?" And I said, "Chase, the guy from Key West." And he said, "Oh, yeah, yeah." Now this is March. Back in those days, by the first of May this town was finished for the season. Every- thing closed up. Everything. When I say "everything," I mean everything. There was only a little town, only 641 people. So this was the latter part of March. So I said, "I'm Chase, come up here." And he said, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah." So he scratched his head. So he says, "Well, I don't have a camn thing for you to do right now." And he says, "I tell you you go over to the car barn. Now, the car barn was where that electric plant is, over here on the cause- way, where you make the turn. The electric plant and the car barn, they were all together, so he says, "You go over to the car barn and electric plant and see a man over there named Ellis, and you tell Ellis that I said for him to give you a job, and he's to keep you over there for six months, and then in the fall he's to send you back to me." So I said, "My God, what have I come to?" So anyhow, I go over there, and see Ellis and told him, and he said, "Hell, I Chase (cont.): 46 haven't got any job. We're laying people off. This is the end of the season." I said, "I can't help it, that's what he said." He said, "Well I'm gonna call him up and ask him." So he called up Fisher and asked him. So he says, "Well," he said,. "the only job I've got for you is a spotter on the street car." Do you know what's a spotter? Interviewer: Keeps people from riding free, and . . Chase: Exactly. And the spotter gets on the street car, sits on the back seat, watches the conductor to see if he rings up the fares. If he doesn't ring up the fares then you report him. And that was my first Interviewer: Keep 'em from knocking down on the company. Chase: Yeah. That was my first job, the nastiest, dirtiest, stinkingest job you absolutely think of. Interviewer: At $300 a month . . Chase: But it was $300 a month. So I was on the thing for about, oh, a week, and so I went to the car barn one day and I said, "Mr. Ellis, no use my keeping on this job," I said. "Those conductors know who I was the second day I rode. They had spotted me -- I'm not doing any good." So just about that somebody came in and said, "Oh, we've had an accident. Another accident." Well, back in those days streetcars were new in Miami and automobiles thought they had the right-of-way, and the streetcars thought they had the 47 Chase (cont.): right-of-way. So we used to have a lot of accidents. So I said, "Do you ever have somebody go see these people right after the accident and get a settlement right away -- quick?" "No," he said. "Well," I said, "give me that job. Let me have that job. I'll see what I can do." So this same Frank Smathers of George Smathers? Well, their father was the lawyer for the streetcar company. Judge Smathers. So