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Document 2 of 4I c UdtL S F e J LA N c I J OOb November DRB File No fj oCMYVl rnrr lq If MR MOONEY OK Koby are you ready OK The next item is DRB File No to Alton Road and the applicant is requesting design review approval for the construction of a new five story mixed use project which will replace two existing single story buildings to be demolished As noted in the report there is one potential minor variance that the applicant can address through some design changes The project which islocated in the CD zoning district this district does allow for mixed use buildings which is what the applicant is proposing And staff has met with the applicant on a number of occasions prior to the submission and the applicant has made some fairly significant changes since the applicant first met with us They have moved they have set back the pedestal from the interior side property lines as well as the rear property line to be more sensitive to the residential uses that are surrounding it The applicant has also made a number of design changes and has placed a level of parking underneath below grade inorder to reduce the overall height of the pedestal Although staff is supportive of the project and the overall design we have recommended a couple of other minor changes that we think will further improve the relationship ofthe subject structure to the surrounding area The first thing that we have done is that we recommended that the size of the pedestal be reduced by feet on each side and five feet on the rear so that they can incorporate a ten foot setback on the rear and a foot setback from the side Thereason for this is that the applicant is relying upon afairly well detailed landscape trellis to offset the impact ofatwo story pedestal that is fairly close tothe rear property line and the side property lines In order for this to be able to achieve adequate growth and to further buffer this from the neighboring properties we have suggested these increases in setbacks Staff feels that this can November be accommodated through some minor variations inchanges in the parking levels We have also suggested that they eliminate the colonnade portion of the project and that the storefronts be brought forward all the way to the sidewalk The reason for this is that colonnades are really not indicative ofthe built context of Alton Road and at some point if a colonnade is permitted there what s going to end up happening is that they are going to have to build in elaborate roll down security devices in order toprotect the colonnade from the potential ofvagrants So with that said we recommend that this application be approved subject to the conditions enumerated in the staff report MR NEVILLE Thanks Tom Good morning MS GRALIA Good morning my name is Maria Gralia with the law firm of Shutts Bowen at S Biscayne Boulevard I am here on behalf of SoBe Alton LLC the owners of the property located at Alton Road With me today is the project architect Koby Karp of Koby Karp Architecture and Interior Design As you heard from staff we are requesting approval of the construction of a new five story mixed use project consisting of twenty four residential units and eighty four seat restaurant on the ground level Parking will be provided in a subterranean basement level as well as the second floor for atotal seventy four parking spaces The residential units are located onthe floors and with the recreational amenities on the rooftop We agree with most of staff s recommendations however we have grave concerns with Condition No IE Condition No B isthe one that states that the rear setback for the pedestal shall beincreased to ten feet from the rear property line and that the interior side setbacks for the pedestal shall be increased to feet from the interior property lines This modification to the setbacks will severely affect our required parking spaces possibly losing two aisles of the required parking As youknow the required parking off street parking was recently modified We are now required to provide to provide two parking spaces per unit This amendment November actually affected the amount ofparking for the development So any adjustments to the setbacks even if they are minimal will adversely impact the parking spaces We believe that we can work with staff and address the issues ofthe setbacks and maybe do something with the landscaping in order order to mitigate whatever impacts that they are concerned would be caused to the adjacent historical district to the east So I urge you at this time that you would allow us to maintain the setbacks that we have originally shown onour site plan and that you allow us to work with staff to come up with some kind of alternative solutions At thistime I would like to turn over the floor over to Mr Karp so that he can go over the design of the project with you and we would be more than happy to answer any questions at the end of his presentation Thank you MR KARP Hi good morning my name is Koby Karp and I ll be very brief and straight to thepoint We have met with staff and yes we agree with staff s recommendations The only exception obviously is lB We have met with our landscape architects and we think there are ways to accommodate staff s concerns without making it acondition for a modification of the footprint of the basement garage What we would propose is for us to sit with our landscape architect and staff if we have to and try to accommodate them on that and Ithink we can lcertainly do that And we also to the hearing a sample board because one of the items that was ldiscussed is the veneer that we are proposing the blue material finish on the fac ade It is actually a terrazzo witha shell material that is going to goon the front face of the pedestal I would like you to look into it We would have liked to keep the covered arcade Obviously we understand within the context of Alton Road they have a point about it But we did want to bring it to your attention and discuss it and I would like for you to give me your opinion on it MR MOONEY Our larger concern though was the security issue Because our experience with these colonnades is that at some point property owners don t have a choice November They end up having very very elaborate roll down security gates because they end upinevitably having a problem with vagrancy in those open spaces UNKNOWN Unintelligible comment MR MOONEY Well along Lincoln Road any recessed storefront that does not have that has a problem with vagrancy Something that large I can tell you right now they are going to be coming to us with a proposal for roll down security shutter MR CAREY And the same thing on Washington Avenue MR KARP If you feel that that s a condition that you would want us to not come back to you with that then Ithink that would be also something that we can look at What we tried to do is to keep itas open as possible but obviously that people who want to take shelter there at night and during the hurricanes they will do so But I don t think that we would be opposed for you to put a condition on us that we will not come back seeking any sort of roll down shutters to enclose the area MR NEVILLE Let me ask you Tom and William how far is recessed feet MR MOONEY What do you mean recessed MR NEVILLE Well he said you ve have some problems with vagrants and recess MR MOONEY Oh no the big problem is when you have arecess of like five feet or more MR NEVILLE Ok So this one MR MOONEY Oh this is a ten foot recess This is basically an underground covered area that I mean unfortunately it s kind of a commentary on the social ills but it is something that we have to deal with And it is something that unfortunately I think would have a negative impact on this architecture if they had to put or install roll down security shutters MR NEVILLE What if the storefront was brought within three feet of the blue architectural features November MR MOONEY It s probably something that the architect would want tostudy Ithinkif you wanted to amend the conditions to say something along the lines shall be brought forward or may be recessed slightly at the discretion ofthe architectural staff Imean If they come up with a design that we think addresses that then it makes a difference architecturally MR NEVILLE I think it still works as long as the storefront is behind those blue things MR MOONEY Well that s clear I mean we didn t want the storefront to line up with that or absolutely we wanted it to behind it so that those are the primary features But just oh I see what you are saying no no we are not saying bring it right up there They will have to some recesses for doors obviously MR CAREY Staff believes that the sidewalks should be used as a primary public circulation area and not to take people off the sidewalk MR NEVILLE Uh huh OK alright go ahead Koby are you finished MR KARP Yeah the reason just for the concept yes Iam basically finished But lthe concept is that there are a number of restaurants which are opening up now on Alton Road across the street and other locations which have outside seating and that is primarily what we were looking to accommodate have it lit up backlit and so forth and if we need to light up hours a day that will be fine too I mean from sunset to sunrise but that is the intent of this design MR NEVILLE OK your plan shows that there is parking below grade but there is also parking above the retail MR KARP That is true MR NEVILLE Alright so that that glass is that a glass strip that runs above the retail there that the parking is behind MR KARP Yeah we met with staff and we are going back and forth discussing the finish on that either to be decorative aluminum or the glass November MR NEVILLE Yeah I don t think you will want to have glass MR KARP Excuse me MR NEVILLE Idon t think you d want to have clear glass MRKARP I think I agree with you MR NEVILLE You don t want to see parking you know fronts ofcars or whatever through the glass Especially at night when it s lit up MR KARP Um huh MR NEVILLE Okay Does that conclude MR MOONEY Koby can I ask you something real quick because I know we did not have a chance to discuss this before the staff report came out but that way we calculated it was that by moving your parking garage forward by five feet you have the room in front you will lose a total of four parking spaces by increasing the rear setback by five feet and you lose potentially a total of parking spaces by increasing it feet on each side We didn t calculate that you were losing rows and rows of parking There would be some loss but it was more slight than monumental MR KARP Tom I think that that s one option and another option we looked at was that we have foot wide drive aisles and we can goand ask for a variance Idon t mind working with you on that just give me the time to meet with the landscape architect and you together and then we can accommodate this MR MOONEY The reason that we mention this is two fold I think one that it is important in order to address the looks and the residential context of the historical district to the east but more importantly when you take into consideration the minimum code requirements for sidewalks and walkways for accessibility for lifesafety exiting what we found is that five foot setbacks generally speaking are not sufficient enough to accommodate adequate landscaping and more importantly this would be adequate landscaping in order fill up trellises and we really feel November that a foot setback from the sidesand a ten foot setback from the rear gives the applicant the cushion inorder to be able to accommodate the code requirements as well as the landscape requirements MR CAREY And then especially on this side because there is no alley on this portion of the block on Alton Road MR NEVILLE Okay let me just ask if there is anybody from the public who would like to speak on this submittal Wow OK UNKNOWN Uh oh MR NEVILLE Who would of thought OK let s go one at a time though OK Please introduce yourself and then MS JACQUE Hi my name is Carol Jacque I am a resident at Lenox an owner and resident REFERS TO HANDOUTS We re passing out ato scale view from our street Lenox We I live in the little pink building which we renovated put everything into renovating about four years ago The paper behind it is photographs of various views on Lenox Avenue where similar low scale one story two story buildings exist Which isbasically the character of the street Nice and open Low scale bungalow type buildings which could also be impacted by development in this way on Alton Road If you go back and look at the front page and you are right to be surprised at all these people coming out I would never come up for something like this This isa horrible experience for me to have to stand up here So it s unintelligible comment thank you itbothers me so much to have to even deal with this We have no Lenox Avenue has no alley So what you are seeing isfive is this building with a five foot setback five feet behind us is literally five feet basically outside my bedroom window However we do there is another one story shopping mall next to this which is in the architect s plan which is five feet which has a five feet setback Although it is not enough to give any air or light it is very difficult to grow plants back there November it s plenty of room for people to put mattresses down to come leave their suitcases to camp out to smoke dope to hang out I have a daughter We have children in our building and thebuilding next door and it s been an issue Ihave not been able to landscape it so that I can cut out that view We have landscaped it but with only one story there is still only so much you can do with the shade that comes in When we moved in here its a great place to live it s a perfect place to live we live a block away from Flamingo Park It s a great place for kids I don t want to see that changed It s just out of scale This building isout of scale I have no problem with mixed use I have no problem with the building there However the existing buildings there now are really beautiful They are completely trashed because nobody has taken care of them But it isa really beautiful feeling and I have no problem with the five foot setback of the existing building which is one and two stories but this will have great impact on not only us but the whole neighborhood And it brought me out here MR NEVILLE So your issue is with the size and the bulk of the building and the height and the MS JACQUE Yes and the setback Imean when you are talking about growing things you know five stories is not only right now because we have minimal yard around our building I have learned that you know I can t grow things close to the building because they have reach acertain height to get sun Yeah how are you to mask this you are you to make a yard to continue having a feeling of being in a nice space if you can t grow plants And so yeah the mass but also just five feet five feet five feet is so short MR NEVILLE Well thanks a lot for coming out I appreciate it MR BROCK Hi Kelly Brock I own and Lenox Avenue which is the two story Mediterranean building that you see in the diagram Ihave a bunch of problems with this Obviously I am directly behind this new project I had no idea that they were actually thinking November of putting in a restaurant I definitely would want if this project is going to go forward a ten foot setback I think that these balconies or terraces or whatever is going to be looking directly into my backyard I currently live there It is zoned as a duplex but I reside in both residences Ilove this street If you look at that landscape and the drawings from driving down Lenox all of a sudden you are going to be you know as if you re on West Avenue in terms of these large parking structures and you know It just it s massive and I don t see I haven t actually seen too much of the design but it just looks like everything else on the beach I would love to see something this is a real nice courtyard style building It is in disrepair I don t know if anyone is looking at trying to revitalize it I don t even know that Idon tknow about zoning for a restaurant on that side of Alton Road when there is no alley How do they get in for trash I would have major concerns about where is the trash bin going to be Right outside my yard MR NEVILLE No they have they have they show in the plans that they have a side driveway MR BROCK No I know but what s it from the setback if it s five MR NEVILLE It s clearly within the building the trash MR BROCK Is that where they re storing stuff What is going to be back there Because then you are dealing with whatever rats or cats or whatever vagrants What s that UNKNOWN Unintelligible comment MR BROCK Yeah exactly So Idon tunderstand the size of the project And I think is it five stories or it s got rooftop terraces so it s actually six Mine is a two story building I don t want to be looking up at four more stories MR KARP Let me try to answer you What we did is we internalized the loading and the drop off so to theside yard to the rear side what we have is we have landscaping And it s passive there is nothing else going on there And the height is feet November MR BROCK What height Of the building MR KARP Of the building yes MR BROCK So is it five plus a rooftop there s rooftop terraces correct MR KARP There is a rooftop terrace yes MR BROCK And are there balconies that are going to be looking into my yard MR KARP There are balconies but your yard has landscaping within it And so I think you will have MR BROCK But I don t have foot landscaping MR KARP No but also I think I know which house you live in That when you look down II MR BROCK There are only two houses right behind the entire project So mine is a l two story Mediterranean and then there is a single story MR KARP What kind of trees do you have in the back MR BROCK There s like palm trees and a banyan tree I think MR KARP Right yeah because what happens and Iam trying to go off my recollection that if you look down what you will be looking at if you look across is that you will be looking atthe green of your banyan tree You won t be able to look into your residence MR NEVILLE OK MR BROCK My tree does not go up five stories plus a rooftop terrace That s a pretty big tree MR NEVILLE Alright Thank you very much for coming out Isaw some more hands Morning MR REDWINE Hey how are you doing today My name is Jed Redwine I am a doctoral candidate at Florida International University and I am a plant ecologist and should be graduating soon Ihave been hired in the passed to do habitat evaluation indices in Monroe November County and that gives me some level of of basically it gives me a high degree of understanding of the vegetative systems here And I am a resident of Lenox which isyou met Carol in her same building I would specifically like to address the setback issue and my experience isthat if they are planning to plan trellising or the vine type of vegetation that they are going to support on their structure that will be a minimally acceptable standard of landscaping It would it wouldn tplaya significant role in protecting or mitigating the effect the reduced view that I have from my house If they were to plant something that would mitigate that if they would plant trees that could be as tall as feet which there are plenty of species here that are native that can reach that height my experience is that they would need at least feet setback from the back in order to accomplish that Additionally as Carol has indicated Carol has small kids so she is not often out at night butthere is a real problem with vagrants moving through that area Especially late at night And in fact they use our yard as a transit so they can jump the block between Lenox and Alton and run from whoever they need to Bringing more people to that location would likely aggravate lthat condition And I have tried to plant plants in our yard and Imade anagreement with our neighbor that I plant spiny plants that try to prevent people from moving back there Basically the light conditions severely restrict my ability to plant plants on the north side of my house Given that there is a concrete wall in my neighbors backyard it would be very difficult for them to establish and maintain a healthy plant a healthy group ofplants that would provide a buffer from our sightlines ontheir property As far as the issue that Carol brought up earlier about having basically whenever you have these tall buildings you create kind of a light shadow or a canyon adjacent to them and the vast majority of species can testablish in that condition because there is no sun flex If you are establishing it under an open canopy in a normal forest there s basically tubes of light that get November through the canopy and hit the seedlings and allow them to grow Without those tubes oflight they essentially can t establish and abuilding doesn t a building is a wall that is not going to allow any light environment MR NEVILLE Can I ask you something This building is to the left of the properties Will it give sunlight during you know half the day MR REDWINE It will get direct sun well let me put it like this it will get direct sun between the times of about to Which is about two hours a day A full sun plant requires four hours of full sun a day MR NEVILLE You wouldn t be able to get it earlier than that MR REDWINE No There is abarrier on the side of the current property owner has a five foot cement wall that differentiates those two properties which would prevent that Basically now it s a sidewalk and you can t do anything to grow there Ican just barely get things to grow on the north side of my building and I do take significant advantage of the early sun MR NEVILLE Okay Alright Thanks a lot MR REDWINE Oh yeah the other thing is that I know in the plans currently the current condition ofthe property should be taken into account with regard to what type of future property they are going to put there Currently there is between and tree cover on the courtyard property which is relatively nice There is one tree that is over Y a meter in diameter which would make it ahistorical tree It s a Melaleuca I believe Ithink they have as many as five species there Their plan as it s drawn now I don t see how they are going tobe able to mitigate for any part of that I don t see how they are going to have living trees on any single location in that spot They might try to put trellises the habitat value of the vines and trellis as opposed to aclosed canopy is just they re not comparable at all MR NEVILLE Okay November MR REDWINE Thank you MR KARP I just want to help him IwantMR NEVILLE No let s let them have their speak their speaking time and then you can address things afterwards MS ROBERTSON Hi thank you Jed Those were great points about the plants My name is Judy Robertson I am right there INDICATES HANDOUT Im in that middle picture onthe block between th and th Street on Lenox A venue onthe west side I guess and forgive me if I am repeating anything I just arrived alittle bit late A couple of points In looking at these photos right off the bat and Carol s very helpful elevation the issue of precedence is astounding to me It would impact blocks both north and south of this particular development in an irreversible way I am you know I m just looking at the photograph and the angle as ahuman person at ground level looking up over one and two story buildings on these lblocksand as it is you can the tower of the Flamingo on the left in that middle picture and the shadows ofI guess that s the Mirador further down or I guess that s the Flamingo Needless to say if all of a sudden we had this in the horizon line there would be no more sky as a just apedestrian So the experience ofwalking through my neighborhood certainly from my side of the street would be darker It certainly would not be intimate and it s not anything we could go back to once you say yes to this So I m I guess Im looking for the long view Itrust that everyone s purpose in this is to make what isthe most special about this place lasting for all of us I mean we ve all invested here And let that lead me to my second point You know I look at the interest of the developers onthis project and I think they probably are seeking a great neighborhood that they can derive value in their investment inthe long run because they are adjacent to an art deco preservation district That s something that we provide them They probably would have made different choices in where to put this building had it not been right next to our homes Which are so beautiful and special But reverse that what do November they bring to us They our properties are not enhanced inthe least by their presence It s not like being next to five story will make my property value better I can t say well Ilive in the art deco district of Miami Beach and right next to a five story brand new building you know And itactually brings the noise of Alton Road more into my backyard than it ever was before So I look inthese exchanges for opportunities to give and take because I know it is a give and take situation Everybody has to make some adjustment in their needs for their future and their home life and how they want their children to be raised and their investment projects But it s a very uneven exchange in this in my estimation we get nothing from this And the long view would tell you that if you have if you dim your eyes and you are driving along Alton Road common sense would tell you that you do this kind of project on the west side of the street It is a natural buffer zone There is an arc to how communities are developed and built and scaled that even someone like me who isnot an urban designer would say well yeah Imean the impact of putting on the west side of Alton Road totally different You ve got the backdrop of the high rises there It makes so much more sense Itmakes no sense on the east side of Alton If this is the only piece of property that they can put their hands on to do a project I think we should ask them to do amuch more thorough job of integrating it l into what s already there I can thelp but imagine this side building on the block even further north let s say between that historic mini mall where the Blockbuster is between th and th Street the impact of what this size building would do to that commercial entity I don t think you all would agree to that So I ask you to apply the same kind of scale analysis to this particular issue Thank you very much MR NEVILLE Thank you Thanks for coming out Isthere someone else MS BRIGHAM Erica Brigham Ilive in a historic building at nd Street I have been a member of MDPL for many years and I was board member previously and I have just November been reappointed to the board Im not speaking for MDPL but I am speaking as somebody who is very interested in historic buildings and districts First Ihave an issue on the height of the building It looks like the top of the roof is at feet but the parapet which I assume is at least surrounds the whole roof and that is not a design element that s shielding you know that s a decorative element onthe stairwell or the elevator tower It s actually something that isprobably required it s definitely required because Iwant to use the roof for recreation So I am wondering whether that is actually exceeding the height of the allowable building MR CAREY No the limit is to the roof is to the roofdeck itself and then projections up to twenty MS BRIGHAM So they can have afoot parapet all the way around and that doesn t MR CAREY unintelligible MS BRIGHAM OK then the other issue is that one of the staff recommendations was that there be absolutely no bar on the roof and I hope that will be stipulated and put intoany condo documents But primarily the fact that as William and several other people have pointed out this block is inconsistent with the rest of the street grid where there would be at least foot separation of an alley between the back of the property and the next building lot seems to cry out for a foot setback to be consistent with the design of the rest of the historic district There is also this building isusing a loophole by building residences Normally the FAR would be for commercial buildings but because it s a residential building they seem to be allowed which is inconsistent with the built out area totally inconsistent It seems that this is such a significant issue that it should be brought as adiscussion item to the HP Board The HP Board has recommended down zoning in the Flamingo Park area the historic district November some I think to and a height limit and because this directly abuts it these and blocks of Alton Road it s it s just totally inconsistent and totally an imposition onwhat is the first historic district of the th century because it is the original historic district that was established in and it s sort of slapping it s a slap in the fact to anybody who adheres to the historic principles And I hope that you will set this aside for now and discuss this whole issue about the east side of Alton Road Iagree that the west side of Alton Road is completely different But to demolish some buildings that would be historic and that are contributing buildings if the boundary were one more lot width to build a story looming totally inconsistent building that is going to both physically and psychologically create a very large lO burden on the people who live there both because they will be inshadow for the greater part of the day and again the landscaping is an enormous problem unless there were a foot setback Trees could grow in feet and they could mask Oak trees orany other kind of lots of other trees that could mask the bulk and height of the building MR NEVILLE Thank you Is there anybody else that have any comments MS ABEL Hi I m Julie Abel Iam a single mom I live at Lenox and right now we have a beautiful neighborhood I know of lots of my neighbors and this just doesn t fit MR NEVILLE Thank you MR NEEDLE I ask that you not approve this building today MR NEVILLE Can you introduce yourself MR NEEDLE My name is Mark Needle I live at Lenox It is one of four protected bungalow buildings in Miami Beach historic districts It is part of if you look at the picture you will see that all of the buildings directly impacted by this project are contributing historic buildings We have committed by being in the preservation district to restore and keep our massing and scale forever and what your applicant is proposing to do isgoing to alter it forever And if you look at the and blocks you will see the predominant scale and November frankly on Alton too is one and two story historic properties They are now proposing to replace that now with amonster Its maybe a lovely residential mixed use property project in some parts of Miami Beach Perhaps even on the other side of Alton Road where it s set back another foot from the historic district But it s totally out ofscale and inappropriate here Ihave a couple of questions before getting into it I don t see from the site plan that it shows the district and zoning boundaries Did you see that on there I don t think the site plan shows that and it is essential for you to understand that this area has been carved out of the historic district to allow commercial along Alton Road It is literally touching our property and all of these other contributing properties Also Idon teven see that variance relating to the drive on the plans I don t even understand what that was about I also have a question about II the basement The basement appears to be a larger dimension then the second level parking because the setbacks are different since it is underground I don t even see that on the plan Itmust have more parking down there There isalso some mysterious additional parking shown on the second floor plan that I don t know isrequired by code It seems to me that there s a number of specific issues here but let me get into some of the big ones The five story the issue iscompatibility This five story high building isnot compatible with the location Although the current zoning allows for this height and FAR Iquestion whether it is really appropriate to build this property out to its maximum height and FAR The CD zoning along Alton can allow compatible commercial development which is FAR and it is comparable to the in the historic district However the HP Board Historic Preservation Board has unanimously agreed after its joint meeting with the Planning Board that this kind ofinfill is inappropriate for the historic district And that iswhy they have decreased theheight to I believe feet they have decreased the FAR to and that issue needs to come forward for the city to decide but it is unanimous from the historic preservation point of view that this kind of building is incompatible And further they are taking advantage of the opportunity touse the November RM Zoning which let s them balloon an extra square feet of development and go up to which creates still greater contextual problems Regarding the height Ithinkand we all believe that three stories would go much further to making this building appropriate contextually with the and story buildings that it s directly abutting That is consistent with the HP Board s request for infill zoning within the district And again this is a carve out should be in terms of compatibility and context and sensitivity should be very respectful of that kind of desire Building setbacks itseems to me that there are too many units being forced into too small an envelope inthis property The intimate scale of and story buildings warrants further design development by the architect We would further suggest that you further study more substantial building mass setbacks especially at the eastern end immediately abutting the district to lessen the impact And again it has been pointed out that the alley alone that doesn texist here would normally create a foot setback If you allowed a foot setback lthat would be even a l foot setback would allow the kind of trees that are required This is nature s law not mine Nature requires feet to build the kind of trees that could shield feet of development from the historic district You I think as a design review board owe it to the historic district to allow trees to mitigate the impact of this kind of inappropriate development Therefore you must allow nature to do that for us Trellises don tdo it I am going to point out the substantial design revisions that are requested by the staff Nine of the criteria in this report are not satisfied That s more than half And it is actually more than that because Iquestion some others I have a question for the attorney actually regarding the details on their site plan Is their attorney present What in your view what does it say regarding the rear setbacks on this property in terms of what s required MS GRALIA We have provided whatever the setbacks that are required by code Which I believe is feet November MR NEEDLE OK And are MS GRALIA And we actually exceeded it I believe we went up to MR NEEDLE Are you citing the CD commercial table Attorney Yes MR NEEDLE And is this would this be the part that says pedestal and tower non oceanfront MR KARP Let me help you out If youplease go to page A Ol You see it says rear setback on the residences It says l feet required MR NEEDLE I m looking first at the pedestal That is where I m starting with MR KARP That s fine Ill show you that too feet required We are providing feet inches MR NEEDLE OK MR KARP That s anything above feet And so the basement parking brings it down but for the pedestal on the rear we are required five and we have provided five That s right MR NEEDLE Well I have a my question is whe e are you looking in the code for what s required MR NEVILLE Let s hold on one second Rather than have a debate between the member of the public and the applicant I would like to have your statement rather than debate them And we will give them a chance to answer afterwards But the board would also like to make comments as well This is a public hearing So let skeep to statements rather than adebate And then we llcome back and if you want to have another chance at coming up again we can grant you that as well MR NEEDLE All right well I ll appreciate that This is you know if you were to follow the staff s recommendation and approve this subject to more conditions then satisfied November criteria then there certainly wouldn t be any more opportunity to putfacts on the record And I think if you look at the CD zoning you will see the requirement for a rear setback if feet when abutting aresidential district unless separated by a street or waterway Okay They have represented on here that it is five feet Staff has said that because of the historic district and because of you know whatever other concerns we should go beyond that OK But it sis the minimum They re asking you to put another variance but they ve not shown that They have actually represented mistakenly this and other issues The same thing regarding what the gentlemen just pointed out that the rear setback of the residences as being feet Well if you look at the code it s actually feet So they went feet beyond what s minimally required but they are representing it as if it is some great concession to the historic district They re barely they re either missing or barely making the minimum without regard to the fact that there is no alley setback and that this is an historic district and that this is a precedent for all of the blocks along the western edge of Miami Beach s first historic district Now to finish up here I would like to incorporate by reference just in case it doesn t come upagain these facts regarding what s represented here and the appropriate and applicable laws And also Ihave understood that there was an analysis of this entire area on Alton not just the historic district but the appropriate context and the historical appropriateness of designating even the Alton Road properties as an historic district that was done some years ago To the extent that that was generated expert staff opinions on this area I would like to incorporate that by reference and I would like to see it These most ofthe criteria So I think that when you look at the criteria they haven tcomplied with additional ones that the staff hasn tcaught such as representing the true compliance withthe code But in any case even the staff has acknowledged that it is more than half ofthe criteria are not satisfied and Idon t understand these are substantial revisions The landscaping alone is a hugely important thing that needs to come back All of these issues are November going to have tremendous permanent impact and we strongly ask that you at most continue this project Do not give it your approval subject to things that are going to be decided by staff without the involvement of the public without us being able to look at this and see what the impact of changing and there s other ones What s the impact of taking off the colonnade what does it look like We don t want the ability for vagrants to camp out there in rainy season It s right across from the Wild Oats where everybody in our neighborhood goes for groceries We have kids we are bringing them all the time We don twant a nuisance attraction there That is an important fac ade element that needs to come back The setbacks already mentioned the proposed redesign of the west elevation also substantive should come back The enclosure of the north elevation of the parking garage also substantive There are additional questions raised by the staff regarding the traffic and the neighborhood studies traffic mitigation landscaping as mentioned garage lighting and the impact it can have on us Iwould like to see all of these things come back This is a super precedent You are actually right now facing something that has the potential to wreck the district on the western edge It can create a wall that is wholly inappropriate to the historic district So that s what we ask Ihavemy own questions again regarding setbacks also regarding the concurrency which isnot met and I wonder why they should be able use that FAR and increase from existing units to in addition to their restaurant and why they should max out in every respect when that is not consistent with the concurrency Iwonder if it is consistent with the comp plan in regard to the historical elements lin the comp plan MR NEVILLE OK Can I ask you a question MR NEEDLE I am done but yes I have one final comment November MR NEVILLE Since you are standing here Iwant to ask you Is their a neighborhood association in this neighborhood Is there a group like an official group of people or even an informal group of people MR NEEDLE There isAnd I have asked that it go on the December Flamingo Park Neighborhood Committee agenda Its the first the big item for that agenda MR NEVILLE Right now what you guys you are just representing yourself individually MR NEEDLE Individually As affected neighbors who are but also you know we have in the past I ve dealt with compatibility incompatibility of development affecting historic districts when it wasn t me that was theneighbor I have a history of doing that for a long time because I always felt that overdevelopment was a threat That s one of the reasons why historically I made it a big issue for myself in this city and I think it s led to a lot of improvements This is a to me this is a glitch in the zoning code You are now stuck with something that is really inappropriate zoning Now what you do with it is you either allow itto max out oryou address it But we d like the Flamingo Park Neighborhood Committee to be able to take a position on this Iwould like MDPL to be able tohear this and take a position on this Iwould like the HP Board to hear this and take a position because it affects the entire western edge Asking for approval today is simply inappropriate It is not responsible for so many reasons MR NEVILLE The reason that Im asking these questions is because if we do continue this project and I don t know how the Board is going to react to all this and typically when there is a lot of opposition from the neighborhood groups or people that we ask the applicant to meet with that group and resolve some of those issues and come back to uswith a project that somewhat satisfies or alleviates some of the concerns that the neighborhood group has And if that would happen here I would like to know who he would go meet with Would he meet with November each one of you individually That is not really too practical I m not going to ask the architect to do that But if there is a grouping or a membership or a even an unofficial MR NEEDLE First Monday in December It s a publicly noticed meeting The first Monday in December at I believe it is atp m The developer is welcome to participate in that agenda item and we will be there and MR NEVILLE Are all of you MR NEEDLE He or she is invited to come and try to try to make this ten pound sack of manure fit into a five pound sack and try to convince us MR NEVILLE I I d be hesitant to send the architect to meet with a group that looks at the project like that because Idon t think that s fair Another thing that s not fair and I m not trying to be confrontational because Ido sympathize with all of you and if I lived there I would have the same reaction but if the applicant is complying with the zoning rules then we re powerless to tell him to downsize his project And I think even court cases have demonstrated that sa futile effort If the zoning code allows him to build such aheight or such a setback or such amount of FAR then they are allowed to do that And the courts have upheld those kind of things And believe me there have been lawsuits in the past in different areas of the country where that has happened You know shading shading from a building whatever But your actually your presentation brings something to mind You ve pointed out that you feel that the setbacks are greater than what he has shown But in our staff report there is no there is no variances required for this So Iam wondering what s what s MR MOONEY The only variance that technically would be required would be for the Mr Needle is correct and that is the rear setback We have suggested as a condition that the rear setback be increased to feet but that is acode requirement In the CD district ifa property abuts a residential district which this does it abuts an R ldistrictthenthe rear setback does November have to be feet minimum So if they wanted to avoid a rear setback variance which Iwould strongly encourage them to do they should at a minimum recess that feet MR NEVILLE Alright and also the last thing I wanted to point out as the gentlemen back there was saying well does this mean there is afoot building or maybe itwas the first woman that presented there is going to be a building from feet up but that s not the case as the architect pointed out that after feet the pedestal sets back to a point where the residential is I think it s and you pointed out MR NEEDLE They set it to My issue isagain it smisrepresented on here Mr Mooney can you tell us what is the set back for the pedestal minimum MR MOONEY Ten feet MR NEEDLE Anywhere inthe city for this zoning for this type of property For the tower not the pedestal MR MOONEY There is no tower here because this building is maxed out at feet So apedestal is anything up to feet There is no tower here MR NEEDLE Oh you mean the residences are being considered as part of the pedestal MR MOONEY Yes because they are under feet but they still have to meet the RM setback requirements for apedestal MR NEVILLE So the residences are actually setback further MR MOONEY Yeah when you look at it they met the required residential setbacks MR NEVILLE So in effect the you know I just want to point out to you that it snot as drastic as you might ve though it was It s the actual residences are actually from foot to feet the bulk of the building is setback quite a distance and Ithink it might alleviate your fears that those backyards will never get sunlight again You know I think they will get sunlight November MR STEFFENS Greg while we can t tell them to lower the building or take away units or eliminate parking we can tell them that this massing doesn t work in that neighborhood MR NEVILLE Well that and also there s other things I agree with the gentlemen again that this building shouldn t have balconies overhanging in someone s backyard atfeet up inthe air Idon t think that s right and that is a design issue and we could also we could also address those kind of things MR HELD Mr Chair MR NEVILLE Yes MR HELD Just a comment and I was just discussing with staff We recently went through an exercise with the HP Board that clarified their authority to require projects to reduce FAR where it s not where they don tsatisfy the HP Board criteria And I was just reviewing the DRB criteria which includes compatibility requirements And I don t think it has actually been determined that this Board does not have authority where it concludes that a project is not compatible that they cannot be asked to reduce to make it compatible And that is something that we can discuss and report back to the board on but it may be possible that this board does have authority to do that MR NEVILLE I m simply referring to and I don t remember where I read these articles but I try to keep up on these things when I read them maybe in architectural magazine or somewhere And I my memory and obviously you are the Assistant City Attorney you probably are more up on this than I am but I think I ve read about lawsuits where it s been established that the developer has the right to build what is allowed in the zoning code and not berequired to downsize because of neighborhood opposition or MR HELD Well Iwouldn t conclude that just because it happened in one jurisdiction that it s required in all jurisdictions I mean we have very strong design review criteria and HP criteria and it may be that the way our code is written it does allow it It does not mean that we November l might not be subject to some lawsuit or alegal challenge but that is something that would have to be reviewed and determined tosee whether it s appropriate here MR NEEDLE Can I make one important comment on this point sir MR NEVILLE Sure MR NEEDLE That is by being in an historic district we are committed forever to maintain this scale and in these specific buildings In the past in other places you have allowed five story next to one story and the rationale has been well in the future they are going to develop this one story will go and they will be able to the predominant characteristic will be five stories The reason that massing and compatibility were put in as a result of the same issues that we faced years ago was because these things are essential to historic district preservation They are directly related to the essence of what a historic district is and this cannot be more impactful so you are really exercising the responsibility of the DRB in protecting the historic district because you retouching itYou don t see itbecause the site plan isincomplete in so many ways But it s it isthe reason why you are allowed to deal with these things is because lwe ll never be able to goup and cover that up You must build in adequate setbacks for trees You must determine that ifthe massing is too much and it needs to be reduced in order toprotect Miami Beach s first historic district That s what s different about this MR NEVILLE Is this applicant is this proposed building in the historic district MR NEEDLE This is a carve out along Alton Road MR NEVILLE No but is it or isn t it MR NEEDLE Is their building well you have to ask me this because they haven t even shown you on a map OK But the historic district line goes down our property line and this one It basically goes down the alley except on those blocks where there isno alley and its literally the same point is in the historic district and out ofthe historic district The same line is in and out ofthe district November MR NEVILLE Let me ask the applicant Is your building in the historic district or not MR KARP No it s not MR STEFFENS Greg there wouldn t be MR NEVILLE Okay UNKNOWN But it borders on one MR STEFFENS We wouldn tbe looking at it if it was MR NEVILLE Right MR CHEVALIER You are saying it borders on the historic district MR NEEDLE All along if you see the image there all along there it s bordering on those contributing buildings in the historic district and this is a loophole in Miami Beach s setup in that if you don t consider it your responsibility MR CHEVALIER And the reason MR NEEDLE And it s not on the HP Board s responsibility MR CHEVALIER Let me ask you a question And the reason these buildings because these buildings are specifically contributing the ones behind it Because there are other lots where you can build to an equal height in this historic district The block of Jefferson you build a similar height as here They are doing it now UNKNOWN Correct There is context for MR CHEVALIER But you are saying these specific houses behind it that are adjacent to his site are limited in what can be done with those sites MR NEEDLE Not only am I saying that yes I am MR CHEVALIER Imjust trying to be clear MR NEEDLE I want to be even clearer Iam saying that all of those four shown on that image we gave you are and I m also saying that the low one two story buildings along the other blocks are I am saying that this is an issue related to the entire western edge of the November district It s only not come up because to this point people have simply renovated or restored or built something that was similarly one and two stories along all of Alton Road This is the first one who is trying to up the ante and go to the max and that s why it s coming to you as if it s a new thing that is coming out of the blue And also you point out the that there were some things before this was declared ahistoric district that were incompatible within the district In some cases you can fit something else next to itthat isn t too bad but the HP Board has unanimously decided that foot and FAR are inherently incompatible as infill for the historic district So this is really asecond issue for you once you close this hearing and hopefully continue do not approve this site The second issue what needs to be done to fix this so you don t get this coming up on the block and block and we create a wall Because somewhere it s either this Board or the HP Board needs tosay you know what If the historic district is building feet and is not appropriate for infill in the historic district then feet and FAR tripling or quadrupling the size of what was there on Alton Road previously is certainly not appropriate Whether the answer is historic preservation as was considered years ago a conservation district or simply bringing down the height and FAR limits in this area in recognition that the historic district infill and this are the exact same problem and the exact same affecting the exact same properties and they should be handled and considered together by the commission Iwish you would make that motion separately and after we finish here today and if there is discussion item that permits it or if you as a chair would introduce it at your very next meeting MR NEVILLE Alright thanks a lot MR NEEDLE think Ijust had a final MR NEVILLE Okay I think we got the gist of what you are saying I think it s time to unless there s anybody else that would like to speak out there Alright then we ll close it up November to the floor and we llbring it up to the Board Let me just ask Tom Tom or William is that whole east side of Alton Road fronting Alton Road is that not part of the historic district MR MOONEY No not part ofthe historic district MR NEVILLE Alright so the properties right behind all those MR MOONEY To the east of this property is all historic The properties on the West side of Lenox A venue are in the historic side and the properties on the east side of Alton Road are not in the historic district MR NEVILLE Why didn tthey draw the property the boundary line of the historic district all the way to Alton Road MR CAREY To be able to preserve the commercial district along Alton Road Ten years ago as Mark had said staff had proposed to the Historic Historic Preservation Board that the Ocean Beach Historic District be extended northward to pick upthe east side of Alton Road Ibelieve all the way up to th or th Street because we considered there was a lot of contributing architecture there The scale should be approved The Preservation Board determined not to bring that recommendation forward to the City Commission and instead identified the Post Office on th Street as a specific site for designation Unfortunately that was demolished about four days before it went before the Historic Preservation Board So the Board has taken no further action to create an historic district along the east side ofAlton Road MR NEVILLE Right And what are the city planners stance on that sort of the east side of the Alton Road corridor Is that meant to be generated as some kind of a commercial district or commercial development or MR CAREY That is what the ordinance code permits MR NEVILLE No Ijust wanted to be clear on that Allright does anybody want to open up with their statements This unexpectedly volatile application November MR CHEVALIER Seems like a simple building right I mean I wouldn tI would recommend that we don teven belabor extensive discussion on the building itself given I think what needs to be done regardless of what the applicant decides to propose I think they need to get with the community groups and see this through as typically is the case when we have this kind of concern MS GRANT HYMAN I have some comments to make I m kind of surprised Mr Karp we ve seen you on so many occasions and none of the clearance symbols are evident Not even any detail in regard to an accessible parking space Iwould think that on page O let s see well this stuff isn t labeled Itlooks as if on theparking on page A You have one accessible parking space next to the elevator Is that correct I believe it s number It s not labeled as such however the dimensions would indicate perhaps MR KARP Yes you are correct MS GRANT HYMAN Iam correct Thank you Obviously youbased this on the number of spaces for the restaurant It s kind of amazing to me that the first part refers only to a bar and then if you look through the plans you see there is arestaurant You are only making reference to accessible parking spaces associated with the restaurant however let s face it with this number of units and access to both the restaurant and abar you re going to have a need for more spaces There are no clearance symbols You have apool that appears tohave a restroom and yet as per the accessibility guidelines we would need a schematic of your restroom dressing room if the building was more than three floors or if the units were more than feet radius from thepool itself Im kind of disappointed because I know that you can do better I ve seen your work MR KARP Thank you Ms Grant Hyman MS GRANT HYMAN And there seems it s real a lot oflacking November MR KARP I appreciate your confidence and it s just that the layer that we had the handicapped on it did not appear on this print and Im terribly sorry for that But I could assure you that we will have it And MS GRANT HYMAN and also the clearances in front of you know in restrooms and you know I expect more detail from you MRKARPMm hmMS GRANT HYMAN Thank you MR NEVILLE OK anybody else Mike MR STEFFENS You got a tough one here I think as Peter said you were really going to need to meet with the community and get their feedback and see what you can incorporate to mitigate some of the community s concerns But I dlike to go through alist of some things that Idlike to see specifically inaddition to talking with the neighbors I have a concern about the extent of the basement parking Because if the basement parking is coming with then I don t know if it s feet or feet or feet of the property line I don t know that you can actually plant decent trees in the piece of ground that you have left between the basement and the property line I would like to make sure that there is no type of ventilation openings tothe rear of this building and I d say even down the sides within maybe about feet ofthe rear ofthe property line And that would include ventilation for the garages and any kind of restaurant ventilation I d also like to see any kind of restaurant ventilation go vertically through the building and not come out the rear or thesides of this building I d want to make sure that therear of this building is a pretty solid fac ade in your so called pedestal area And also make sure that all the services are from the front of the building Iwould assume that you vegotta have refrigerated or air conditioned trash room in this but that should open somehow internally and maybe not to the exterior November And also those large terraces that you have on top of the pedestal for the rear units to somehow pull those in off the rear so that they re not looking over into directly into the properties to the rear But besides all these sort of small items I think is the big sort of compatibility with the neighborhood directly behind here It s a major issue and how you could address that with some changes in massing isa major concern of mine MR NEVILLE Thanks Mike Alex MR DAVID Just a few comments To tell you the truth before I focused on the address I thought this project was on the west side of Alton Road I do have an issue with the compatibility I agree I believe that whatever happens the east elevation needs to be much more enclosed because looking at A it just seems as though the first level is open Im not sure if that s what was proposed or is a sheathed in something MR KARP The east elevation is solid and there is no ventilation or mechanical going to it MR DAVID Also in any redesign of the building it seems as though the residential lobby is probably back almost feet or close to that from Alton Road I think it would make a little more sense to me that it be pulled up a little closer tothe front if possible Just it seems like you would be walking down from Alton Road a long corridor to get to the residential lobby Basically that s it for my comments MR NEVILLE OK Clotilde Luce Yes first of all Ijust wanted to say that I thought it was really important that some of you overcame some reticence about speaking today and that you came out It was really very helpful to me because when Iwas looking at his proje t at first and it s true we re seeing how quite a bit of documentation is missing on the context and its impact on the neighborhood and to the point where Ihadn teven taking into account honestly November I know that I believe Hohauser s first house is in that street on that street right behind Iwas told by the architects who owned the house But and I was lookingat this as something that could be positive for Alton I was seeing you know a pedestrian flow from the Ad School to Wild Oats Other than the concerns about the colonnade which is possibly an invitation to nuisance and you know scenes that you don t want to look at I thought of itas a very a good an enhancement And that s why I think it s really important that you came out and called attention to the fact that there s something immediately behind it and that there is no room for trees and that the setbacks are inadequate and so forth But let me just ask you one question Is there any way you could consider a building like this useful from your point of view For instance if you look at how things are developing along Biscayne you have a very brutal rupture between what s going on on Biscayne proper and a residential neighborhood right behind it And something very high on Biscayne actually serves l as a kind of gating and then you dropped lO stories and you re in a residential neighborhood behind it So that actually if Alton is very commercial and lots of traffic and Iwas astounded that somebody would actually want a terrace overlooking Alton that was one of the surprises to me inthis project but if that s what all that is could such abuilding actually protect you from Alton Is there anyway You could consider it as a buffer MR NEEDLE Itsa good question and the answer is that these are one and two story historic buildings so one and two story buffer does shield noise We have a massive wall behind us that s only feet and my wife mentioned that but the it does buffer the noise and to the extent that it s a two story building I think it s an entirelydifferent story from the fact that there is also athird fourth and fifth floor So there are some benefits I also think that commercial along Alton is a benefit I think they did a clever job with putting the parking underground Ithink that it seems to be allowing more parking underground and therefore like to see that plan because Ithink they could pull it November back and allow for the trees I don tthinkit needs to go all the way back it seems like they re protecting the ability for more parking than they re showing you because they re not even showing you the plan But to some extent I m not entirely critical of everything about this project I just think I mean I wish they had just redeveloped the historic properties that were there because it would make a beautiful addition to the neighborhood if they simply started from that standpoint and move this building to the other side of the road or somewhere else where it would be a lovely addition toMiami Beach somewhere else But if they don tjust restore and renovate and build onto what s there and preserve the beautiful potentially historic features that were unfortunately undermined by the post office demolition years ago there are some benefits But they reach a point at which the overwhelming impact says back to the drawing board because this is all about the negative impact on the historic district which is essential to your responsibility I believe to look at because it s not in the historic district but istouching it MR NEVILLE Alright thank you No it s closed to the floor right now MR BROCK I was just going to respond to her question MR NEVILLE You don thave to respond MR BROCK ifshe thought can Irespond or no MR NEVILLE No MR BROCK No MR NEVILLE No Closed to the floor She was addressing I m sorry l Unintelligible No well I think her question s been thoroughly answered We are up here we re going to close to the floor and keep the discussion going But ifanybody has a question for you definitely be invited to bring you up I would just like to add that Clotilde Luce was once one of you sitting out there in anumber ofprojects since I ve been on the board and now she s up here Ialso would like to November compliment you on coming to this meeting and voicing your concerns And maybe one of you or more of you would want to volunteer and make yourself available to come up your one of these days and sit on this board because you all articulated your problems very well And like Clotilde I looked at this project earlier today and thought well this isreally a nice project and I think it s going to fly through pretty quickly and I m sure the rest of the board is going to agree with it Koby has brought a lot of projects up here and this is really one of his nicest projects that I think he s done in the years that I ve been on the board and But you ve brought up some very valid concerns and you brought it in a different light that we don t typically see and that isthe light of the neighboring it neighbors who abut the project and might be affected byitAnd many many projects come up here with no neighbors say anything and we don t getto see that perspective and we just focus on the design which is what we would have done on this project The other than the fact that it probably the foot I could not support the foot encroachment of the setback I would urgethearchitect to push the project back as far as possible Obviously as Mike stated the big issue here iswith your neighbors and how your building is going to affect them The other thing is even with the foot setback parking on the second floor if it sopen that s going to really affect them They re going to have lights on their back yards all hours of the night I would either try to get rid of that parking or shield it from the light make it a solid wall I think Mike also stated something about the balconies facing east I would address that as well I do applaud you Koby for pushing the residential part of the building back orI would hope that no matter how you reconfigure this project that you maintain that because Ithink it s beneficial for the neighbors that and I think that s something they didn tall realize what was happening as well But that should bepointed out November And I think the way this is heading is that at least I would and I think the other board members might agree with me that you do meet with a group Idon t want you to have tomeet with everybody individually I know you don thavethat kind of time and I would never ask you for doing that And I would also like to ask the group to not to not approach this as somesort of confrontational type thing as you mentioned piling a bunch of manure in a bag I don t think that s fair And that s not the right attitude to take when we when you negotiate these things Please look atthe developer as someone who is he s out there trying to make money and the architect is doing the best job he can within he didn t know you guys were out there probably in this great a force when he designed the building But now that he does please approach it professionally and Ithink things will get done And if that s the way it happens Koby please you know listen to what their concerns are Personally Iam sympathetic but I don t even though Gary mentioned that it really isn tthat necessary but I still have this strong feeling that if zoning is allowed and you know and the city planners have set up a zoning district that the applicant should be allowed to build up to that extent But of course the design could be handled differently and the massing could be handled differently the planning could be handled differently Other than that Im ready for a motion by anyone to move this thing along MR STEFFENS I would move to continue but Iwant to make sure that the date it s continued to allows enough time for Koby to meet with the community MR NEVILLE He mentioned February or December rd was the date MS GRALIA I believe that the their neighborhood meeting is December the first Monday ofDecember so if we know what that is and I guess if maybe we can continue this I would imagine I don tthink we would make it in December so the January MR MOONEY Well Idon tthink you ll make it in January either because the submission deadline for the January rd meeting would be the first week of December November MS GRALIA So then we have to be moved over to February MR MOONEY February th MS GRALIA The th OK MR NEVILLE OK yeah MR STEFF ANS I move for a continuance tothat date MR DAVID I llsecond it MR NEVILLE All in favor ALL Aye MR NEVILLE All opposed Thank you very much for working with the neighbors MS GRALIA Thank you