Document 3 of 4C I ttf e L CkS f I c Ej
LA J c O February
DRB File No M T po If MRMOONEYOK we re ready for the
next item MR NEVILLE Yeah MR MOONEY Ok the next item
is DRB Fil no
this is Alton Road The applicant is requesting design review approval for the construction of a
new story mixed use project which will replace two existing buildings on the site which
have actually already been demolished This application first came before the Board on November of and
the matter was continued to a date certain of today inorder to
address the concerns expressed by the Board members As noted in the report Staff issupportive of
the project as the applicant has substantially addressed all the previous concerns of the Board and Staff
We have suggested a few minor modifications such as increasing the rear setback of the
project as well as the interior side setbacks as well as some additional details with
regard to the garage doors and the louvers Staff would recommend that this application beapproved subject to
the conditions enumerated inthe Staff Report MR NEVILLE Thank you Tom Good afternoon Not saying
good morning anymore that s been long gone OK MS GRALIA Good afternoon
Board members My name is
Maria Gralia at South Biscayne Blvd I represent the applicant on this
project with me today is Koby Karp of
Koby Karp Architecture and Interior Design as well as Barry Miller the landscape
architect As you just heard from Staff they have recommended approval of this project with certain conditions
REFERS TO NEW PLANS What we passed out
February to you
is those revisions we agree with Staffs conditions and we ve made those to the project which you
have in front of you We are proposing a
mixed use story building with residential units and an seat restaurant on the ground floor This
building has parking which is subterranean level of subterranean parking and another level on the
nd floor We were here in November where we were deferred and were asked to meet with
the neighbors that are inthe adjacent neighborhood they actually abut the east portion of our property
We had actually two meetings with the neighbors The first meeting we basically
just listened to the concerns that the neighbors had and then we had a
second meeting that was held on December At that point we provided the ones that attended that
meeting I have to say that the December meeting was not well attended by many of the
neighbors that had opposed the project in the first place Iknow it was the Christmas holiday so
there was a lot of conflicts with people attending but the ones that were there we showed them
the four options that we had provided and we came to a consensus that theOption No was
the option that was probably the one that would be most accepted by the neighbors I understand that
not everyone isgoing to be happy we can tdo everything that the neighbors want but I
think we ve done
a lot in order to address their concerns And I ll tell you what we ve done
We ve basically removed all the balconies that were facing east to provide greater privacy this was one of
their concerns that the balconies would look over their backyards and they wouldn t have privacy So we ve
removed all the balconies on the east We ve taken the residential portion and we ve
pushed it towards the west providing a foot distance from the east edge of the pedestal and
this again provides a greater buffer between the residential units that begin on the rd floor and
the adjacent properties We ve also taken the floor plate heights and reduced them to feet Page
February which reduced
the building height by feet and then the restaurant portion on the first floor has a double
height ceiling pushing all the parking back towards the building on the second floor We also
increased the interior side setbacks as recommended by staff we increased the interior side setbacks
to point feet inches We also increased the rear setback to feet At this point what Iwould
like to dois ask Kobe
Karp to come up and present the project to you as well as we ll be able toanswer any
questions you may have And I d like to reserve some time at the end for rebuttal if that will be
necessary Thank you MR KARP Hi my name is Kobe and I ll try to be brief We
basically as Maria has eloquently discussed we have taken your recommendation last time we ve met with neighbors
a few times and as Maria has basically mentioned toyou what we have
done is taken the Staff comments of the additional setback and have implemented the set of drawings
that you have in your possession And some of the comments that you had last
time we have also brought the sample board and brought in the section which I think is
important to show and I just want to put it down not to block any views But
what it shows ishow it is that we were respecting the neighbor to the west as much as we can
and we have taken all the balconies on the east and removed them and reduced the residential function So if
you have any questions or suggestions I ll be here MR NEVILLE Thanks Kobe MR KARP You re
welcome MR NEEDLE Anybody from the public like to I know you guys have been waiting
a long
time Come on up Will
you be the only one speaking
Or is there Ok there s a whole group Alright You ve been waiting
a long time I want you to have Page
February your say
but just alright I was just going to say just try not to be repetitive if you know what I
mean because oh boy it s been a long day MR HELD Mark you
re going to use the microphone alright MR NEVILLE Thank you MR
NEEDLE Is this the one
Hello Mark Needle Lenox Ave You most of you were here in November when the
neighborhood reacted with great surprise and was rather upset to learn that there is a
loophole inthe zoning code that essentially allows a developer on Alton Road the edge of the historic
district the buffer to the historic district to go outside of the CD the commercial zoning and
use mixed use zoning We had all thought and Irefer for an example to the
January Memorandum No that the city did shortly after the Save Miami Beach movement called for some
changes in the zoning and it said that it basically deleted the FAR bonus category and methodology
And it did it in that district it did it inall districts we all thought
it was done We ve now learned that there is a little footnote that allows you to actually get outside
of your zoning category and go toanother one Since November the project the existing historic buildings were demolished
about three or four days later The developer s team came
to the Flamingo Park Neighborhood Committee meeting with virtually no changes
the only change was the legally required setback from feet to feet As you recall there
is no alley here This the property s literally touching multiple one and
two story contributing historic buildings The they made a very modest concession of height The main change this has
been the parking reduction from two to which allowed for a massive reduction
in volume I wouldn t say massive actually but a significant
reduction in volume But unfortunately what was a one story restaurant in November has now become
a two story restaurant inside but there s no this is simply a Page
February large volume
that square feet of the savings in volume and massing height and mass has been given
to making their restaurant nicer displacing square feet ofdevelopment up to the upper floors
where it s most impactful and destructive on the historic district The savings could ve gone
towards alleviating the problems in relating to the district not towards making a nice
restaurant which if that s all this project were Iwould love it but it s not It
s a restaurant plus units that of housing replacing units that were previously there plus parking for both the restaurant and
the housing which was not there previously We did offer to meet in January and
I want to actually submit that
for the record On January Isentan e mail tothe attorney and to the neighborhood association
facilitator I sent a follow up e mail on February just confirming that we had offered to
meet and that we had outlined specific steps that we would accept as apotential compromise Because we
learned unfortunately at that second meeting where they got consensus to use the this is for the
record HANDS COpy OF FEB EMAIL TO CLERK where the consensus was supposedly
obtained none of the affected neighbors were at that meeting unfortunately Meaning in the legal sense of
the ones who are in the adjacent nearby area within the notice area
We did offer to meet as Isay we outlined some ideas that we had
talked about back in November that included variance pushing the massing more towards Alton Road where itwas less impactful
on the historic district We talked about a variance for the parking which subsequently turned
out to be allowed by staff without the need for a variance at this point
it appears And we also talked about the need to step the massing so
that it would break up that mass and allow for more shielding to the neighborhood I want to show
you now this issue we brought to the Commission who referred to the Planning Board and this is really what
we feel and we said it at I should
point out Page
February in your
packet and for the record Flamingo Park Neighborhood Association did make aresolution at that
well attended meeting which was to eliminate that loophole and to address the zoning the
underlying zoning of the CD zoning to put an height and setbacks and so forth And actually
we called for a reduction in FAR toCD l level The Planning Board meeting the th
of January we presented the facts of what this neighborhood actually looks like REFERS TO
DISPLAY On the left hand side this is in your packet you have the
historic district which is predominantly one and two story I actually broke I llbreak down
the percentages for you again but in the blocks that we re talking about it s one and
two story contributing buildings buildings that are going to stay like that forever On the Alton side
and Im talking about each area along Alton that goes along the historic district where there is
the CD zoning One the Alton side the buffer has always been one and two story buildings
The only exceptions here are two buildings at the corner of th St which are also backed
by the way by two of the nonconforming orlarger than two story buildings within the historic district
so it becomes a place where a modest exception has been made But generally that is the
scale The developer showed us in that meeting and it s now part of your package
an alternative way of looking at things which
is which is topoint at all the nonconforming non historic buildings the ones that were not
part of the historic district and to show those as the scale by which new development
should be measured REFERS TO DISPLAY This to us is really more of arogue
s gallery of what we don t want to be building towards the exceptions that
we don t want to contribute towards additional exceptions Its not where we think the measure should be at
all It s also inaccurate It s showing that there is a ten a seven story
building at the corner of th St which is incorrect its at the corner of th St
Page
February So that
s the existing zoning And if you look at it in a graphic form you will see that the one
and two story buildings are predominantly here REFERS TO DISPLAY This isliterally showing
you the percentage of one and two story buildings and those the percentage of those that
are larger than that Historic permanently dedicated to remain so although in some cases
there can be modest infill This shows you the limits of what is there The yardstick for
new development should not be
the greatest exception and if you look at what happens in the CD district
with the loophole it allows the bonus of FAR a increase beyond what is already set to be higher than
the limits within the district And this is touching this is the buffer zone for the historic district
We made a point to the Planning Board that we felt this was fully incompatible and we felt
like the designs that we dbeen shown are really proving the point because there s only so
much that they been able to do in making changes to this point I want to point out
to you what it looks like from our perspective You talked earlier about
the importance of street scale and what does is it look like from the street well as
important as the Alton Road side is the perspective from the historic district REFERS TO DISPLAY And this
is what it looks like when you take one and two story buildings buildings that are
destined to remain so and you back it with a large volume that is maximizing height and
is maximizing its width for the most part I know that some setback was made but a
large volume that is looming over these buildings and making them less than more like declarations in
front of alarge modern structure So what happened Id like to introduce some expert testimony
because Ithink our own Planning Board said it very well REFERS TO DISPLAY What
we have here
and I ve given you the transcript in your package two pages Any time they
re talking Page
February about the
zoning changes within the historic district to address the infill problem I ve just bracketed those
and summarized them shortly But the real thing I want to draw your attention to isyour
own Planning Board s vision of the compatibility of this volume next to the historic district I
don tthink reasonable people
can disagree that the CD RM bonus IS wholly incompatible with the adjacent zoning That s the
Board Chair I think we cannot allow them to build the monstrosity
that you are talking about Board Member three I think that the character of Alton
Road needs
to be preserved by all means Board Member four I agree that we definitely need
to minimize the scale and
retain more of a street level scale on Alton Road and that or story possibility
on
Alton
Road isvery dangerous and I wouldn twant to see that And then again the Board
MR NEVILLE I wanted to highlig t that I think there are areas where
reasonable people can disagree and I think there are areas that are just black and white
I
think
we
do
need
to move this process forward so we can have zoning in progress as quickly
as possible The reference there is to closing the loophole that allows this extra massing which we
feel so destructive to our homes Board Member five said I totally support the intent
of what the commentary has been Board Member six said I move Board Member
seven five
again said Second OK that s unanimous Idon tI llleave this up
here Outside of the historic district the Design Review Board is the board
entrusted with ensuring that the edge of
the historic district is compatible that the new Page
February development is
fully compatible There are there are good reasons for you to deny this project based on
its incompatibility It has violated numerous criteria according to thestaffs analysis They may
feel that some of them have been solved but we don t And regardless of any future zoning
change that the Planning Board may do there is simply no justification to go beyond the
CD zoning and its FAR limits in order to use a different section of the code which by the
way isso inappropriate that it has setbacks that push the massing away from Alton Road which the
staff testified at the Planning Board meeting would be more able to handle the volume and
it pushes it back towards the historic district It simply is a use of zoning that is
inappropriate for this location in its entirety There is no reason for this board to create an exception
on Alton Road when it isso destructive What needs to happen isto allow all of Alton
Road rules and regulations to be developed in an overlay district and let the developers for Alton
east of Alton and theneighborhood really come to a consensus as to what would be compatible
and move forward in that way together There are numerous bases for deferring this besides the
fact that changes are coming in terms of
scale height setbacks and that fairness argument the idea that we don tlet
one developer push through a project which is so clearly incompatible with the historic district and
then others if you saw thephoto that was up there REFERRING TO DISPLAY there are other
properties up and down that area for sale and then others are going to be subjected
to new rules The development should be consistent up and down the east of Alton There are
other reasons for making for deferring this matter For one the square foot assertions that I
saw I haven tseenthe
latest that you were just given of changes that were made but what I did
see showed me that on one page the square footage Page
February added up
to and it wasn t as it said onone page or as it said on another page Another error that I believe is a
technical but substantive
error for the record is that this project isnot advertised as a six story project
but in fact it is six stories One story is underground The notice simply says a five story building It
doesn ttell you that there is also an underground level which it will be pointed out
later has an impact as well inthe neighborhood The staff has addressed some of the setback issues at
the ground level but the
gaps that we saw in the plan are very significant We believe that there are other
criteria that the staff did not also emphasize that are important including the rooftop number design criteria We
don t believe it s appropriate the orientation and the way it s laid out We
believe it s creating an attractive nuisance for the neighborhood It should be oriented towards the sunset not positioned
in a way that units are going tobehaving continuous parties sunset evenings out on
there They had requested a mini bar whether it s there or not there is little buffer
to stop their party noises from coming into our neighborhood from above The Number
orientation and massing also was marked as satisfied and we believe it s not The very fact that the
zoning pushes back from Alton
Road this extra mass that s been added on there is inappropriate and as
we said to the developer s team after the November meeting with the right circumstances we d support
the variances that push the massing forward just like we said we would support variances to reduce the parking
to the point that has eased the situation somewhat today MR NEVILLE excuse me Mark
How much more you have MR NEEDLE About three minutes two minutes Page
February MR NEVILLE
About three minutes OK You been going on for about minutes now MR NEEDLE
Well this is
really a fundamental issue I believe before this board Because it s up to
you to protect the historic district and I think you need to see what the Planning Board saw And we
have to deal with the specifics of this one So it s I m the only one that
is making a presentation but that s the reason for the length MR NEVILLE OK no well we re going to
lose a member here pretty soon MR NEEDLE Well MR NEVILLE Go ahead you have three
minutes go ahead MR NEEDLE
OK Anyway the issues that are unsatisfied are not to us
not incidental things that get left to the staff They are fundamental to the judgment
of whether this is sensitive to the district or not Third reason for deferring is you
need tobreak up this mass of the three story
on top of the two story It needs to step back it needs to be ameliorated from one
stepping to the next These are substantial design changes that they the developer s team refused to consider any
substantial change to the massing above the second floor The concurrency impact is another issue that
I and particularly what will be pointed out the underground levels impact on
drainage And finally taking that mass from the top where it s most hurtful
to us allowing the stepping to take place as
a result of that and put it back on the second floor Ifa one story restaurant
was good enough in November it should be good enough now That square foot change can allow for stepping of the tower
and a significant change to us but it needs to come back to this board
Page
February Don t
be you know misled by any idea that you need to rush to take advantage of the parking because
we will address parking ispart of an overlay district or as part of a variance with the right building
But this isnot the right building
And we ask you to look beyond the paper of the building plans that have been submitted to you
and look at the effect of creating this massive intrusion into Alton Road which I think the
neighbors think the Planning Board thinks we all believe is absolutely inappropriate and unjustifiable Thank
you MR NEVILLE Mark Iappreciate that you put in a lot
of time and effort into your presentation I just wanted to make sure that since you didn
t get these drawings ahead of time is your understanding of their setback s feet from the
rear and then after stories from therear to the tower Is that what you guys have MR NEEDLE
The setbacks they didn t answer our January th or February nd communications so this is the
first time I m seeing it So it sMR NEVILLE Well they just handed
it out today but I didn t know I don tknow if that was
your understanding or MR CAREY We provided you with the Staff Report which indicated that we were recommending
a foot setback rear setback as well as
increased side setback MR NEEDLE I knew that the Staff was recommending a foot
setback Iasked for the Staff Report last week I didn t get it until
yesterday at I ve read through most of it And the foot is an improvement
over what was there before it was feet But the issue is it s still giving its full massing for the
entire story block it needs to be stepped back and away it needs to be pushed forward to Alton
Road through variance
and this is just not a design that is compatible The design itself is incompatible with the historic neighborhood
it s creating a wall effect Page
February And we
believe that that s the reason that all of Alton Road needs to be examined We need to
have conditions in which the developers and they re not the only ones they are the first ones
to alert everyone to this problem Because historically as you saw everything is and story even
the new development s been and story This is thefirst time anyone s known about it We need to
move forward III an orderly way and have
some incentive for everyone to sit down together There s really been no incentive for
the developer s team to sit down with us and negotiate which is why Ibelievethey
have more or less avoided us and they ignored the ideas that we threw out inour offer to
meet again this month MR NEVILLE Well they mentioned that they tried to meet with you guys but MR
NEEDLE No they we arranged a big meeting In fact Itold you about
it that
we had a neighborhood meeting scheduled and we had a good group that came to that
And there were no changes And they were telling us that instead of doing the variances that they
were had changed their minds or advised not to and weren t doing any variances so this
is it And the same thing was said before not everyone s going to leave here happy
But there were no changes that were made Now at that point we said well this demonstrates to us
that it s absolutely inherently incompatible and we made the motions the
resolution that said you know let s cut out the loop hole and let s address
these setback issues and massing issues it J a way that s sensitive
to the Historic District They arranged a meeting which already we knew some people didn t make I couldntmake because
of my daughter s Christmas thing Christmas isa
hard time to meet a week later when we thought we were going to hear
all this stuff at the meeting that we talked about in November Page
February So it
s really misleading to say that they made real efforts to meet with us MR NEVILLE Alright
MR NEEDLE They did
meet with us but MR NEVILLE That s not
the point I mnot trying to accuse someone of avoiding anybody else MR NEEDLE They
are nice people by
the way I don thave any problem with them I just don t think there s
any incentive to make changes in their building at this point unless you direct them to make them or
unless the Planning Board creates the overlay environment MR NEVILLE Yeah I don t think we
can direct them
But the only point I m trying tomake and Im
trying to be fair to everyone is that Iremember the last presentation and it seemed like a nice project
Then you guys got up to speak and it really brought out opened our eyes to some real
problems and that was that the building was way too close to the backyards of the residences behind And
that was a real good point And really quite frankly I don t think any of us
were really aware of that problem I believe now that they seem to have corrected because was itfeet from
before That it went from tofor the story part and you said what was it before the
tower something MR NEEDLE I believe it was feet and it s now feet is that correct MS GRALIA Its
now feet from the parking structure
So you ve got the feet for the parking pedestal then we re set back feet MR NEEDLE
No no no that s not true MS GRALIA I m sorry I apologize total feet from the
property line MR NEVILLE Yeah alright MR NEEDLE So it s a foot
change Page
February MR NEVILLE
So there has been a real effort on trying to accommodate MR NEEDLE But
there s been tinkering with some things that requires real movement of mass for
this tobe compatible and MR NEVILLE I know what
you re saying and that brings me to my next point that if it seemed to me
that and correct me if Im wrong that your presentation s geared around the actual zoning district and what
developers can I don t want to say get away with but what they can build under that
zoning district And that s the real problem here is that you feel that the zoning district
is allowing too large or too bulky or too massive of a building to be constructed next to your
neighborhood Whereas before it was more this individual design was just too close and if
they moved itback it would be a lot better It got moved back but now it seems like
it s a bigger issue and Im not sure the DRB has the purview to come and say to the City and
to that project we can t approve you because we agree with you that this zoning district allows for too
large of abuilding Well you know I m not sure if that s something we could do
And if we did do it I m sure if that wouldn tspur a lawsuit by all the people
who went and bought property on that road thinking that the zoning district allows them to build x amount of square
footage or x amount of height where you know now the City s own Design Review Board
says no no no you can t build that So MR NEEDLE The changes that the Planning
Board first of all you misunderstood then what we were saying What I
was saying is that it was so plainly violative in many respects but
the one it was unarguable that had to change because it was even violating the law because
it was ignoring the fact that it was abutting us That was the point Imade and
I actually outlined all of the points about massing and so forth I certainly outlined them to the
developer steam you ll see them in the emails that I sent s to them where all this
is spelled out as well Page
February You re
making a point that I m saying that I mnot saying also Im not saying Defer this so
that the Planning Board can fix the problem Im saying Defer this because as the Planning
Board points out it s inherently incompatible You were told last time in November by
the City Attorney that the project MR NEVILLE What s incompatible the
zoning district is incompatible or this building is incompatible MR NEEDLE This massing
adjacent to these historic
buildings MR NEVILLE Is that are those quotes from the
Zoning Board are those quotes as they for I m trying to struggle with my
English here English is my first language but you wouldn t know it from today But are they
reviewing that building when they make those statements or are they debating that zoning district MR NEEDLE
No I made only a Ishowed theentire zoning district
They re dealing with the entire district I did show this is the only reference I
made to this building and I
didn t name it I just said this isthe kind of massing that you get REFERS TO DISPLAY And I
said that the massing that the relationship of the massing was representative by the developers team as being
accurate except for the coloring of the building at that time And I pointed
out also that these properties up and down Alton are also advertising an incredible development opportunity
and incredible means it s hard to believe And it frankly is it s impossible to believe
that this zoning exists next to the Historic District that this is the buffer
this is the historic buffer that s supposed to be commercial and it has historically been a
and story commercial So I m not saying that you should defer it in order to allow the changes
to take place I m saying that you should defer
it I went through and gave you a number of reasons why you can defer it and should defer
it or deny it outright because it s flatly Page
February incompatible This
amount of massing just doesn twork adjacent to these we should be protected by you
because we are historic properties We have given up our rights to build this We gave
up our rights by being in the historic district which as I ve showed you is and district wide
it s story over and story That context needs to be protected What we have instead what we have instead
is this massing which istimes the size of my historic bungalow architecture where Ilive REFERS TO
DISPLAY It s actually on the back here This when you have this use
of the RM zoning it simply creates inherent incompatibility I think even the CD limits as they are
do that MR NEVILLE Again you re getting to the zoning district I don t
know how we can
protect you when the zoning district allows that size of a building to be built I
mean MR NEEDLE Ithink at this point if you don t if the majority of the Board doesn
t feel
that that extra FAR is inherently incompatible then I think that you should just examine it from a
design standpoint and just decide is this massed properly and most sensitively for the Historic District Do
we want to let them take the parking savings and use it to have a nicer
restaurant and displace that square feet to affect our historic neighborhood Those are the design considerations
that you should be looking at right now You can t decide that it s too much FAR for
this site that s not in your purview What you can decide is
that this design is incompatible and that s all MR NEVILLE Well yeah that s what we re here to do to
debate the design ofthe building If it s it s one thing if it s violating
all the zoning restrictions like some of the applicants do that gives us some teeth But when it
doesn t it becomes a little bit more difficult and it s nearly impossible to say no that building cannot take
place and it needs to be stories and it needs to be you know like feet Page
February MR NEEDLE
I m going to differ from you legally for this one point here because legally I
think this Board is fully entitled to say This isa CD district and we believe that unless you
convince us and let them keep coming back and trying to convince you unless you convince
us that this building can be developed in this and be compatible and sensitive to the
neighborhood we re not convinced that we need to let you out of the CD FAR limits
and height limits and go to this other section of the code this RM section of the code which adds
new massing and displaces it back towards us You don thave to let them gooutside
of the CD section of the code which they bought in to So legally I believe you are standing
on very firm ground to say to ask the question Should this go outside of CD zoning do we believe
that they have demonstrated that this building is sufficiently compatible and sensitive to the Historic
District That we can as the entrusting body for the Historic District buffer
here that we can say This is compatible If you can say it s compatible with
that with that additional massing and as it stands right now I don t think that you can
but if you can go ahead and say it MS GRANT HYMAN The site data makes reference to CD it
doesn t make reference to RM
MR NEEDLE The what doesn t make reference Im sorry MS GRANT HYMAN Our
references tothe site
MR NEEDLE Well they re in a CD district but the CD
has a footnote essentially that allows when you re
doing mixed use you use an entirely different section ofthe code MS GRANT HYMAN Oh ta
daa Get it got it MR NEEDLE That s why it escaped I m sure
in the elimination of
bonus density bonuses it s a loophole it was a glitch
that was allowed tostay in there But Page
February frankly I
think you re allowed to say that they should respect the CD zoning unless they can prove
to you that they can build a compatible building And when they came to us in theDecember
ih meeting at Flamingo Park they proved to us that they couldn tbuild a compatible building And
therefore we made an alternate process to go forward to start addressing the problem MR
LEFTON Mr Chair with all due
respect can we move on and hear any of the other MR NEVILLE Yeah that s what
I was MR
LEFTON neighbors MR NEVILLE Alright Mark thank you very
much Let s whoever
else wants to speak MS GRALIA Do you could Ijust briefly address a
couple of the
comments just so that we can get this cleared up First of all MR HELD
Excuse me Mr Chair MR NEVILLE Yeah MR HELD We may be losing
a quorum MS GRALIA Oh well MR
NEVILLE No Clotilde s
still here MR HELD Oh OK MR NEVILLE Clotilde
are you leaving OK she
s still here so we have a quorum
MS GRALIA We were not
oh OK thank you We were not advised that they were going to be presenting anything
at the
Planning Board so we weren tfair at the Planning Board to present anything I don
t know what he presented to the Planning Board I don t know where these comments come from
And I think to bring it up here Page
February the comments
that were made on the project that wasn t before thePlanning Board but it s before
you today I cannot respond to those comments what they presented to the Planning Board What we
can show today
is what we have We did meet with we tried everything Wernet with them and we
first met with them and we listened we sat there This is our first meeting There was
a lot of attendance At that meeting we said based on their comments that they wanted the building
stepped back that they didn twant balconies that they wanted to provide more privacy to
their yards We said OK we re going to go back and see what we can do
at that point We agreed at that meeting what were the dates that people had available And I remember that
there were two persons in attendance that said that they were going to be on vacation on
December thNo one else could be present on the other days that we suggested so we
all decided it s December th would be the date that we d meet the second time Before the
December th meeting I e mailedevery single IDenis Russ andlbelieveMr Mark Needle I e mailed them
four options four different options which I have with me today of things that
we would present at December th meeting So everyone had this beforehand When we got to
the December th meeting we reviewed all of these options and the ones that
were there thought that option number two the one that gave us the greater setbacks on the
rear that was closest to their property that that would be the best option to build And
that s the option that we presented to the board Now on the second meeting that Mr Needle
is talking about what occurred is that we have adeadline January th we
needed to submit our plans in order to be here today So we could not
wait and when I got an e mail from Mr Needle onJanuary th even though after December th
I e mailed every one of these options again to everyone so they can review them and let them know
that we would go with option number two IoPage
February received an
e mail on January th outlining the things that they still wanted and one of the criteria was
that they wanted an FAR of We have an FAR of We had no time to schedule another meeting with the neighbors
because we had to redesign this whole thing and submit it by January tho So
when I received a second e mail sometime in February nd I believe February nd it had already been
submitted We had I mean everything had been done So I just wanted to clarify those
things because we have tried to meet with the neighbors and do whatever ispossible But right
now we are in the CD district we dohave and
FAR of we re not requesting any variances whatsoever to this project One of the variances Mr Needle was talking about was
to push the building forward to Alton Road was basically staff did not want
us to do that so we were playing with most things How do we satisfy staff
How do we satisfy the neighbors So I think that the option that we are presenting here today is
not perfect everybody s not going to be happy with this but I think that we ve gone
a long way to make it work for everyone Weare also and Igot the landscape architect right here
because the last time we were here there was someone from the neighbors
who was an arborist and had a lot ofquestions in reference to our landscaping
So we put in a lot of work in the landscaping too that we would provide sufficient buffers
on the east side of the property and that s why we have greater setbacks that we could
have agood lush landscaping that would survive there that would actually disguise the big fa
ade of the building that they were the massing that they re so worried about We would provide
this We even said Look we ll provide landscaping on yourproperty if this is going to
give you greater privacy on your property Page
February So you
know I ll let the neighbors continue but Iwould like the landscape architect to talk
a little bit about the things that we re going to provide them that would maybe alleviate a lot
of the problems that they re discussing right now MR NEVILLE Yeah let s
do that Are some of your concerns with landscaping and buffering I waslet s
MS JACQUE The new piece I m
sorry REFERS TO HANDOUT MR NEEDLE There were somany concerns Unknown
Board Member It refers to flooding MR NEVILLE
I think alittle bit more information is
good Ithink right So let s let shear what you have yes MS JACQUE
I m sorry I have to go MR NEVILLE OK
why don tyougo ahead and speak first then
MS JACQUE Thank you My name is Carol Jacque Ilive at Lenox Ave
and although Iwas inclined to just talk about my backyard which floods every time it
rains because we re abutting the small strip mall next to this property and it s all
cemented in so Ican twe can t enter our property in the back when it rains
No matter how little the rain is because there s no drainage Even though I was inclined to talk about that
there s a much bigger and more important issue and that s the drainage all around Alton Road
And although I have just because of time I have some letters here which I guess Ill
just leave from people
that could not be here that are not necessarily addressing drainage but just the project in general
that neighborhood residents that are not inclined to I think the project is basically to massive But
I won t read that because I think they will probably be repetitive However I
do want to read a letter from Pippa Seichrist who is the president of the Miami Ad School Page
February You ll
notice that pictures on the front here were taken in front of the Miami Ad School this weekend
however we could take these pictures every single month because of the flooding there
This is a seven year old in a crosswalk This is how we get to Wild Oats We crossed the
street we have to walk obviously if you blocks away during this time You can see in
the middle picture the fence for the project here so it s right next to the crosswalk is right next
to where the proposed project is And this is just south of the proposed project the strip mall that
I referred to which is all paved in so in the back of that strip mall there s a lot
of flooding every time it rains This is from Pippa Seichrist thepresident of Miami Ad
School I am the president and one of the founders of Miami Add School located
at Alton Rd My husband daughter and I also live in the Deco district atJefferson Ave
years ago we relocated here from out of state tostart our business MR NEVILLE Ma am you
don thave to read the whole letter Imean we can
read it and I can see the highlights They re talking about in the third paragraph extremely severe
flooding II Yeah MR LEFTON I think we need to stay to the MR NEVILLE Yeah MR
LEFTON to what s germaine MS
JACQUE The reason I m talking about this Im sorry
there s an underground
parking MR LEFTON This isa public
right of way This project as with every other project as I understand will be required
to maintain all
its drainage on site MR NEVILLE That s right that s MR LEFTON This is a
public drainage issue which Ithink is a huge one We all deal with it
in the city of Miami Beach in front
of my house in front of my office Page
February going down
Alton Road but I really think we need there are alot of topics that are truly germane to
this application and we ve gotta stay focused on it And Im sorry I ve read it Iknow
what the issue is it s a real one but I don t think it s one for this MS JACQUE The reason MR
LEFTON I m sorry MS
JACQUE The reason it s important
to this project is because of the underground parking That is going to take all
the drainage we have all that area of drainage and it ll be gone And already we
are flooding like this And I m not saying Idon tknow I m not an engineer Idon
t know what the effect is MR NEVILLE Well as Steve just pointed out the it s
required that each property when it s developed keep itsrainwater on its site whether
by underground well you know by underground drainage MS JACQUE Well has that been addressed
here MR NEVILLE It will be I
mean that s part of the permitting process Once
this thing goes into the permit process it goes through public works as one of the
review departments and that s one of the things they review They review that for every project MR
LEFTON And for your benefit and the benefit of the public that s watching the public right
of way has that same requirement The water that falls in the public right of
way is required to go into a storm water drainage system and that can be either handled
through deep well injection system for through French drain That has to happen within that facility That swhat
s lacking and that s what s causing the problem there The specifics of it
what exactly is the shortfall I don t know But that s how it needs to be addressed
That water and your fear that that water is in some way permeating to that site off site of the
public right of way and that that s where it s going Page
February that s
not the case Ithas to be handled in a drainage system provided by that road and that s what
s deficient MS JACQUE Well it
s hard MR LEFTON It s a
valid point and the public should beaware of that that it needs to be addressed The drainage
facilities need to be improved And hopefully our city is moving forward and they ve
been doing a lot of drainage improvements MS JACQUE It s hard for me to
trust that since the obviously there was not sufficient drainage put in when the one story mall
was built without underground parking and this flooding problem has started happening since then So
it s you know I would Iwould like this to be considered because it does need
to be addressed It s an existing problem now which could only be could only get worse because of
the massing and the need for all this parking Thank you MR NEVILLE Alright let s hear
from your landscape architect briefly And just let
us know how you oh Barry MR MILLER Surprise MR NEVILLE just let
us know how you re going to be buffering
this this building from
the existing neighbors MR MILLER Thanks Greg Barry Miller Savino and Miller Design Studio Iconfess
we had our own issues about
this project when we first got it back way back in September with
the foot setback That really left us noroom with a you know foot wall or foot wall whatever
it was addressing the historic district But that was that plan and the plan you have before you
I think still shows just a foot setback This is our second plan so this shows the
evolution of the process of trying to address the neighbors I think it s afoot setback now so whatever
we showed here MR CAREY That s what s being recommended by staff tothe board foot Page
February MR MILLER
foot setback The so my plan presentlybefore you shows a the there s
really three wayswe can address that eastern buffer between the historic district and the east wall
east fayade On the ground level with a
dense planting of canopy trees or something like that or dense palms such as Arica
palm fishtailpalm something like that There s also afayade issue of putting
up plant vines that can grow up Ficus Repens our plan shows a plant called bridal bouquet
which can grow up on all sides as shown on the building north east and south side As
well as that s two facets of it on the
ground level reaching up to or feet after that you have a podium I think is at feet or so
the third floor There s a planter that would be on the east side that s going to be a fairly large
foot wide planter where you could put in large well not large but coconut palms that could be unknown eye able
to down I heard there was an issue about hurricanes blowing the trees off of the roof
into the neighbor s yard But I think that could be addressed in the construction
process as far as putting these things down So that s a third kind of layer ofbuffer we could add
to it I think along with the increased setback it would go a long way to address some of
the neighbors concerns MR LEFTON Barry can you do you think it s reasonable to add in between the
I think you ve got green buttonwoods MR MILLER
Yeah green buttonwoods there were about MR LEFTON Palms in between them just to get a
staggering effect to take down the mass MR MILLER
Yes Page
February MR LEFTON
of that rear elevation I think that would go a long way from the neighbors perspective
not just the direct neighbors but as you move into the historic district MR MILLER
Absolutely MR LEFTON
to change that pattern
MR MILLER Yeah now that we have
the room the foot room there s even another layer we can put on there MR LEFTON
Yeah MR MILLER Such as an Arica palm
along the edge MR
LEFTON Yeah I m thinking of something that s going to
get a little more height The Aricas to take for the immediate neighbors but really at your
discretion and working with staff and the neighbors whether you know it s I want
you to use your design you know judgment whether it s coconuts or Washies something that s going
to get some height MR MILLER Right MR LEFTON Ithinkwould be would be
really beneficial We ve gotthe
roots MR MILLER With
your with your approval we think I think the green buttonwoods now are about feet
on center
That in itself would form a very very dense buffer the first feet MR
LEFTON Agreed MR MILLER after you allow them grow and if we move those back towards the wall
the only reason why they have
pretty expensive trellis system
along that east wall where we re growing these vines So we wanted to let
that show a little bit But Page
February that s
dropped and I think the other other thing could could work well in buffering that wall MR LEFTON
Thank you
MR NEVILLE Thank you Barry
Is there someone else I think there were afew more people who wanted to
speak MR BROCK Hi Kelly Brock Iown
and Lenox which is directly behind this property I wanted to address a couple of
things One in the first meeting that we came to you guys sort of said to us
you know do you want this project is this a good project You know what do you guys think You know please
meet with the architect and the attorney And we sort of walked away and said yeah
OK let s do that We do want something like this in the area I think that that
s not of issue What s of issue is the size of the building and we are just afraid that as
soon as you come off th Street all you re going to see onthe right hand side of Alton Road is
story buildings And I think that there is aPublix or something going in on th Street or whatever Anyway that
s not the point The point is that we want to try and work with the architect and
the attorney I am the absolute most
impacted by this building The attorney has never contacted me I gave her my business card the very first
time we ever came here She s never called me She apologized in the last meeting
and said that she would call me never heard from her So she s not making you know everyone
always has two sides to every story I would like to say that Iwould like to
have heard from her Ihave not I have emailed I own a business you know and I
reside in the house That s the first issue The second issue is now I see that they have made some changes
from the meeting that we did have but you could have given it to us
before we got here so we wouldn t be so you know steamrolled To say Oh
look you guys actually did do Page
February something but
we did meet before and you didn t do anything So that s sort of something Iwanted
to bring to the forefront But you guys are
the design review board Iwant you to look at the project and say this is what you
think Is it nice Is it not nice Does it meet with you know the elevation You guys said in the
very first meeting we ve been here for a long time you know since you said in the first
one what does it look like from the street Well we re showing you what it looks like from
the street from Lenox And it s this huge monster wall I mean I don t know if that
s what you guys want people driving down Lenox for it to look like That s what you guys
are here for I think personally MR NEVILLE Yeah I meant to talk about that but I didn t
want to put anybody lIon the spot That drawing obviously is misleading MR BROCK Which drawing MR NEVILLE
The drawing that shows it hovering over the
little houses because that s
an elevation drawing MR BROCK Right MR NEVILLE And real life which brings
us perspective MR BROCK I would love
to see like the
other architects came in with actual models Iwould love
to see what that looks like Or you requested aerial views onother projects MR NEVILLE
He has a street a street rendering right there but let s not I mean MR BROCK But
the point
I was trying to make MR NEVILLE If Iwas on your side I would draw the
exact same
drawing MR BROCK Exactly Page
February MR NEVILLE
You to a dark so it looks like Darth Vader looking over abunch oflittle MR BROCK
And there
s two sides to every story so I agree but I don t think that this project should be
the first six story building on Alton Road you know not compatible is what I think Maybe
one story shorter you know Something like that if they came in with that kind of
concession In the last meeting they said it doesn t really matter what we do because we ve already
submitted the plans so we re going to build it no matter what That s not the right attitude
MR NEVILLE Well it has to go through the process
first MR BROCK Right MR NEVILLE OK thank you very much MS
COTTER Hi Allison Cotter
Lenox One of the things I just wanted
to address is you know we have a wonderful great area We all come here because
it s different and it s special And I think we ve got to make sure that we
preserve that from all angles I think it s great that Alton Road is finally getting developed on the southern
end It s
great to have Taste it s great to have Oliver s I want more it s the
best thing for our neighborhood But it has to be done in aresponsible manner And quite frankly when you are in the Deco
District and Iknowthe other women goes out on the weekends and Im sure
you guys go to please come and walk on Lenox Stand on theeast side of Lenox and
look where this project isgoing to be How does itimpact our area And
you will see something that we see We just see this massive block You know there s so
many ways you can go with this project let s do it so all of us are happy
And I d like to see something that isn t so intrusive in the backyard You know people have been
talking move it out towards Alton and make it Page
February staircase even
Something that we are not just hit with it because that s what we re going to see MR
NEVILLE Idon
t think you are hit with that I mean they have a two story building that s feet from
the property line And then from feet from the property line the so called tower which is an
additional what three stories for four stories Three stories takes place You re not hit with
that You are hit with astepping back of the building I don t know where the misconception is
that there s a and it never was a flatstory or four story building whatever it was MS
COTTER And I know that it s not a flat one MR
NEVILLE It was closer to you MS COTTER But it was just still
it s the massive size And Iknow
everybody keeps repeating massive massive MR NEVILLEIf it was a two story building it would be
the same thing That you
still have a two story building feet away from you it s the same thing There would
be no difference if it was a two story building you d still have a two story and they
ve actually reduced the floor to floor height so the two story that s within feet well that s at
feet is at feet above ground which is really like stories because a two story is usually you know
more than feet So Idon t see this building as being you know like being broadsided or like that elevation that
was shown hovering over the backyards because they ve pushed it back and they ve stepped it back Idon
t know ifthere s any drawings here that you can show her MS LUCE That
s what I was going to bring up is just to be really tedious and on my one note
theme for the day had there been renderings from behind we wouldn
t be debating this Well yes but without your building in unfortunately or with your building in it So
Page
February MR NEVILLE
Here s your building unintelligible word REFERS TO IMAGEMS LUCE
I m
just saying that it s probably not your favorite perspective to show the controversial side of
a building but MR NEVILLE No to be fair
not too many architects will do a perspective from the MS LUCE the controversial side of
the building
MR KARP And just to be showing you what
we did is we have a photo montage of the two buildings that neighbors live in and
actually there is the building inthe back what is it called all the way in the
back the Mirador The Mirador is actually shown here And what we did is we ghosted in our building
where it would be like when it s setback And what we also did is because we did have
I think how many options Three MR NEVILLE Actually show show her this section This is the most descriptive
section REFERS
TO IMAGE MR KARP Yes please This is looking from the street and
that s the Mirador shown in
the background and we ghosted in our building where it would be And then what we
did here MR NEVILLE This is asection MR KARP This isa section showing where we
took the view from Lenox
and this is the existing building that
s the private yard in the back and what we did is we showed the rear
in the red increased to feet And obviously the side setbacks also increased But what we did based on the
discussion last time we have the foot landscaped area then we have the planter then we took
the balconies off and before we were at feet setback and now where at feet in total
And then because you didn t Page
February want anybody
looking into the backyard so we drew these angles to show you that nobody really is
going to be able to look in the back yard unless they really you know cut the trees down
And also as he mentioned
is just so we re clear before what we had is we had a foot high space and we had
a foot high parking so we were at And what we did is we took itinto and so yes we have
an foot two story space in the front but it s really made of a foot high parking that takes up most of the space
in the back and another foot on the back So that s how we also got the additional feet to
drop offthe overall building cause not only did we set it back on the onthe on the base and on
the other three stories but we also reduced our overall height MS COTTER UNINTELLIGIBLE MR KARP Yes it isand that
s why we left MS COTTER UNINTELLIGIBLE COMMENT MR NEVILLE Give
her the microphone please
Koby MR KARP Oh I m sorry MS COTTER When I stand
on this side ofLenox
and look in that direction this is big I
mean it s not Mirador big but
it s big And to me it s actually shocking And I think we have something incredibly
special to preserve in our little area and people come from throughout the world just to be here If you travel
outside this area and you come back home you just sit there and say Thank
God Barbera Capitman fought so hard to save this Because we d have a lot of that
And it is really important this is the turning point This is it This is the
point that we can make a huge difference and Ithink it s very important not
to just leap to stuff Let s really consider this because this will be here and here and
here and it will go all the way down And that it would be tragic Page
February MR NEVILLE
OK thank you Anybody else want to come up and talk MS BRIGHAM Erika
Brigham I m speaking for Miami Design Preservation League as a board
member and a member of the advocacy committee First I have a question about the subterranean parking
garages Does anyone have any of them then actuallybuilt and functioning The ones
that are completely below grade MR CAREY Yes the new Indian Creek
project has a completely subterranean parking garage MS BRIGHAM They seem to be
coming upall the
time I m just wondering what the history so far has been with the way that
they work and how they MR CAREY Indian Creek Drive is is is one that s been
built and MS BRIGHAM And it s gone through some rain I suppose MR CAREY a
project of the Gilbert Fein district that s one is going through
the permitting stage right now and Koby you can t say where that one is in
the process as the architect ofthe project MR KARP Hopefully that will have a building permit in the next
few weeks MR CAREY OK the
Caribbean Hotel project has a totally underground parking garage on Collins A venue They re
been at least three or fourothers reviewed and approved by either the
Design Review Board or the Historic Preservation Board in the last year MS BRIGHAM So there there
s been many approved but so far there s only one operational Then is that
right Do I
understand that MR CAREY I believe there is also one on South Beach I don t
know where can t recall the address Indian Creek Drive is
the one that s operational right now Page
February MS BRIGHAM
It might be something to add then to make sure there s abit of a swale that there
s absolutely no berming up to this garage so that there won t be any drainage problem onto the
property behind just as as one condition Miami Design Preservation League completely
supports everything that Mark Needle has put forward We met
extensively and discussed this at some length The historic district this is the first th
century first historic district of th century buildings in the country and by that right
it should be protected more than almost any other historic district We do feel that the bonus
is quite a loophole
that should ve been addressed a long time ago and we re sorry that it sstill there
This particular block is avery special area where there are three
blocks between th and th that have no alley In the alley is normally feet
wide plus there would be a foot setback which would mean normally there would be a foot setback between
the back of a property line on Lenox Avenue and a buildable area on the east side
of Alton Road So we would advocate for at least a foot setback and also to have setbacks
within the three story building As you can see from that rendering it s a very very stark fayade facing
the people on Lenox Avenue and facing
the historic district And it should be broken up It should be stepped up it should be broken
up in some other way And also I don t see the reason for the floor to
ceiling windows just as a strep right across without any any differentiation at all It is just an extremely boring fayade
and also it s an imposition on the people behind them to have these windows staring
down atthem So at least stepping it up and Isupport Mark on the volume of the
restaurant you know take some ofthat away and use it to step up Page
February And that
s basically it I believe the building this architectural district has buildings and do you
know how many there are that are nonconforming Of the buildings there are really very few
that are nonconforming You know they ve picked afew of the non conforming buildings but
this you know this is a very precious commodity that we have and it should be
protected You don thave to allow everybody to build
out to their FAR You know they may be allowed to have FAR of point of but
you don t have to grant them that if it iscompletely incompatible which is one of the most important things for the DRB
to look at I think to protect the asset that we have MR CAREY You know
Erika Iwish that you know several years ago when the
planning staff had requested the Historic Preservation Board to direct it to expand the either
the Ocean Beach Historic District northward along Alton Road along the east side of Alton
Road upto I think th Street for alternatively to expand the Flamingo Park
Historic District westward to Alton Road that the Miami Design Preservation League had been there to support
that recommt ndation but they were not The district was not expanded instead
they elected to go ahead and try to designate PostOffice on th Street all
by itself As aresult the Post Office was getting demolished MS BRIGHAM I m Im
sorry about that William MR CAREY and we had no protection at all MS BRIGHAM Yeah MR
CAREY If that historic district designation had gone forward and you
wouldn t even have found to buildings that were on
this site that have
been demolished being demolished because they would absolutely have been contributing buildings And
you re absolutely right it s a lovely stretch along Alton Road and I really lament you
Page
February know the
fact that we don t have any historic protection over it but we are we have the zoning that we
have MS BRIGHAM Perhaps it
can be revisited as quickly as possible plus the down you know looking at
the zoning One other thing about break stepping back isthe sun lines As the sun
sets the further back it steps the more there will be able to be sun into the backyards of the people
on Lenox Avenue MR NEVILLE I m not defending that rear
elevation because I don t think it s that great either but you have to remember that
it once had balconies and he was taken away because you guys didn t want the balconies And
now you mentioned how the windows may be too big and you may want to reduce
the size of the windows but I don tsee how that serves any purpose That sooner pretty soon you have
a blank concrete wall and Idon t thinkthat sany better But anyway again
I m not defending that All right we have a quorum You are granted voting rights Unknown She will
take them MR NEVILLE Is there someone else who d like to
speak MR RECHER My name s
Charles Recher and I live on Lenox and I think that you
know all of the people that live there and I think that you all if you were
living where we are you would oppose this You know that And it is you know no one would want
this And it might be able to get through or somehow because of you know XYZ maybe we
didn t act this or that but we ve got this battle a lot oftimes and we
see what happens when it s not fought correctly And I just see this as an opportunity to you know do unto
others as you would have them do unto you You would not want this I know you wouldn t
You know Page
February So I
m just saying you know if you could kind of if we could just have alittle bit more time
maybe a little bit more interaction and try to address these issues that we you know as the
people living there are very concerned about Thank you MR NEVILLE I think all
of us on this board value the neighborhood Idon t think that s the issue And
I don t think anybody up here is you know bent on destroying your neighborhood I don t know where
that perception comes from And as I mentioned before from what I m hearing here it
s a zoning issue that you guys are really opposed to Zoning allows a certain height and bulk of building
and it sounds like that s what the battle is taking place Hold on Are you here to
speak on this project MR
SALAZAR Yes MR NEVILLE OK go ahead MR SALAZAR Hi my
name is Claudio Salazar
I work for Koby Karp but
I m also a neighbor Ilive in the building Lenox which is a five
story building Next to me there is a seven story building and there s a couple of other ones
that are story story buildings So I am a neighbor who isconcerned about what happens to the neighborhood I believe
this project is of a much lower scale than any of the buildings the existing buildings including mine
which is a five story building that was built in Not only is a much lower scale
building but also bring some life to that stretch which wasn tthere Isee some
development happening
in that little portion of Alton Road which has been happening for the past five years which
I m excited about And I m excited about going out and walking around that area
I think his project is complying and is actually listening to the needsof neighbors Page
February And it
s stepping back It doesn t have aboring fayade I think the glass kind of breaks that blank
fayade s the blank the impression of a blank fayade And it steps Imean it steps to
the point that is not in your face plus all the landscape that s going to be added between the neighbors and
the building itself It s definitely going to be a I mean it s definitely a building
that can address these issues neighbors issues and alot of other issues for the pedestrian I
mean it s pedestrian friendly the scale as well as the program of it It s going to be
probably avery nice restaurant underneath Ireally I m really happy about theproject and I m real
excited about this I also collected about signatures of neighbors that live in
my building and neighbors that live in buildings adjacent to my building so Ihave
all the signatures over here and all of them are excited about the project They reviewed the
plans and they re just excited as I am MR HELD Mr Chair MR NEVILLE Yes MR HELD
If I could comment for a
minute MR NEVILLE Yes MR
HELD If the gentleman
s done So just to be clear and we had
this discussion with the
HP Board over the last year as well with a project coming before them this board does
have certain discretion with respect to issues that arise out of the compatibility of projects that are
proposed with the existing built environment And there are at least three design criteria in the code
that address that specifically the sensitivity to and relationship to and compatibility with surrounding
structures So it s not entirely a question of height and FAR that s been zoned
this board does have some discretion to look at those
issues And it s it s your job when an application ispresented to satisfy your self that those
criteria are satisfied And it may be that in this Page
February case based
upon this section that s been presented that you are satisfied that it s been addressed and the
issues that are being raised are really other issues that need to be addressed either by the
Planning Board or to the Commission in the ordinance as awhole So Ijust wanted to
clarify that that you re not bound by height and FAR as set in the code those are let s
say those are aspirations if a project is compatible and sensitive MR NEVILLE No I certainly realize that
The point I was trying to make is is that the opposition to a project if it
s about size and bulk and not design although I know he s made some points about it being
compatible whether it is or isn t but if it boils down to you know just how large it is
and how close to the property line is and that sort of thing then you know then you know I
believe that s not such a valid argument as of course whether it s compatible or not No I
m fully aware of what you re saying and I appreciate you pointing it out as well All right so
we are MR NEEDLE Just a point please MR NEVILLE OK
MR NEEDLE Because again Ithink
you re not hearing some of the
things that we re
saying about the design And if you look at my e mail from January th which
was an appeal to meet and discuss
the design they keep talking about a two step you know that you ve got this thing that s
been setback OK it should be setback feet perhaps it has been setback but it s the second
step which is a single step and it s the full three stories When they had the opportunity
to put some ofthe mass back where they got savings from parking they have the opportunity to do a delicate
dance in relationship to the district where they ve done atwo step It s just it
s just a first iteration of something Page
February And you
re also Ithink not yet absorbing some of the other issues that we ve raised such as
the rooftop elements which are a very major issue to us It s like there s so much wrong with
his project that I think the first thing that you that one grabs onto isOh the balconies it was
all about privacy It s not all about privacy It s not all about the zoning being wrong for this
which it is but it s also about a design where they don t want to talk about It
s like they used to say when in South Pointe Thomas Kramer s people would say to us Don
t touch the tower Well that s what they told us Don ttouch the tower we are going to
keep the exact same massing and block that we had here and we ll shift it a little bit
and that s all we re going to do for you That tower is imposing and if you take that top story
and you step it you have that removed altogether or stepped down It s not about just the
feet it s about the fact that you ve got a traditional suburban kind of a structure that s
juxtaposed against these one story buildings and its four times as high as my historic building
and the next one Henry Hohauser s original residence as was pointed out These are design issues and if
you approve this without addressing the design issues and some of these other things and
just say well we took out balconies it s not about that its about a
project that isfundamentally wrong in so many major respects And so you really are mischaracterizing what I ve said
when you refer to the zoning Granted that s a
grounds for appeal right there but butit snot just about that it s about
the fact that they have not wanted to negotiate with us about how its massed MR CAREY Koby have
you calculated with the minimum required rear tower setback would beMR KARP Yeah I think it s on
the zoning index MR MOONEY feet MR KARP I think itshows it
to befeet Page
February MR CAREY
And what have you provided MR KARP and
I m not gonna reply to Mr Needle because I think it just goes down a direction which
is not where I wanna go It we had the same comments about the restaurant and the height
that s where we lowered it And the misinterpretation about the stepping what we did
is we listened and we took it back we provided four different options we pushed it back
to the maximum and then we brought it down We eliminated the balconies The stepping terraces
can potentially create more terraces and more balconies and more of the things that
we not necessarily would want from other people who spoke to us not necessarily this gentlemen
by himself We have taken each and every comment that you ve given us
seriously We have carte blanche from the developer to meet all of your requirements both staff
both the board and the neighbors And Iyouknow the basement parking and the drainage
we have to provide the drainage on site These are things which are above and beyond
what normal items are I just feel that we need to make it very clear that we
have taken each and every comment that you ve given us as a board and as staff and addressed it
as late as bringing you right here the latest comments that you ve given us as staff Thank you MR
NEVILLE OK Let s close it up to thefloor and bring it up here to the board
And I m sorry Oh did you want to speak MR ZAID Barry Zaid I live at Meridian MR
NEVILLE Talk inthemike please MR ZAID I msorry My
name is Barry Zaid I live at Meridian I ve
lived here for years The problem with this
building is that it doesn trelate to what s around it and we keep shifting this and shifting
that and talking about measurements but the fact is that it s incompatible with its neighbors The materials are wrong
they don t relate in any way to the buildings around them The scale is wrong we
ve talked about that Page
February plenty The
profile of the building isblocky and Erica mentioned perhaps breaking the building up so
that it doesn t look like such a big mass of boring repeated elements But surely Koby if you
were to stand in these people s back yard and imagine can t you do anything more interesting Can t
you make ita celebration rather than something MR NEVILLE Sirwe re not
going to have an attack on the architect and we re not going to have a debate between
the public and the architect MR ZAID OK I apologize for that but
I m sure these people can work out something thatworks better for the city for the
neighbors and even for the people in the project And I get the feeling that everybody is so
stuck in
their tracks that they were talking about little measurements rather than a whole aesthetic thing And really
somehow the building needs torelate better to its neighbors And I think
that s the essence of the discomfort that everybody is feeling You can t help and look
at that building without feeling that the neighborhood is being impinged on OK and that is somebody
who lives in the neighborhood I m not going to be
directly affected by this building but I just feel this chewing away at our beautiful beautiful Art
Deco district It s piece by piece it s like a quilt that s being moth
eaten And I know that we can build beautiful and wonderful buildings and it just needs a little more effort
and a little more insight and alittle more seeing this building from the outside in rather than
as aplanning solution that meets all the laws A little more aesthetic interest Thank you MR
NEVILLE Thank you MR KARP If can just say one thing MR NEVILLE OK Page
February MR KARP
Because I think it s important That s why we took attention to make this Board and
provide with context and materials of buildings which are in the neighborhood not only the
immediate neighborhood which are on th and th but also further away And that s
why we also made it part of the record here to show you what the context is And that s
why I think it s important for you to realize that s why we brought this board we brought this rendering
and we brought this section Because a lot of thought went into it We did walk
the neighborhood and that s what we came up with And even as a fluke one of our own
employees lives inthat community Thank you MR NEVILLE All right let s close it upto
the floor and bring it up to the Board Would anybody like to start their comments please Janet you
would MS GRANT HYMAN OK you ve got apool on the roof
And quote unquote let s see you need a schematic of a restroom dressing room unless
all the units are within foot radius of the pool and the building is not more than stories
high Accessible parking states that you show according to the guidelines you would need Again I have no
symbols ofclearances and I have no idea whether in these units there are clearances This
is rote you know I don t know Kobe you still don t seem to get it And
especially number and
are not satisfied Only issues of the criteria that they need to meet have been satisfied MR KARP No more
have been satisfied since we have provided the additional setbacks MS GRANT HYMAN No not according to what I
see MR KARP for the project
Right and what we did istook the Staff comments and provided the additional
setback both
on the rear Now furthermore to the best of our Page
February knowledge we
don t need to have as you mentioned the stories and the feet but I ll double check it
And all of our units do meet the MS GRANT HYMAN I can quote
you the it s OK MR KARP Yeah yeah Jennifer mentioned thesame thing and
we ll double check it But and I think that we have handicapped right
now MS GRANT HYMAN That s correct MR KARP And we llprovide another
one as required And we also have
the bicycle spaces in our garage MS GRANT HYMAN And then of course clearances in front
of MR KARP Yes MS GRANT
HYMAN sinks and washrooms MR KARP Yeah And again you re right
Usually Janet I have
it on there dashed in but because
we didn t have the layer on it Ill make personally sure and Jennifer s
here that we will have it for you on of our projects MS GRANT HYMAN Thank you MR KARP
As we normally do MS GRANT HYMAN Thank you MR NEVILLE Thank you Janet Steve
or Clothilde I think Alex is
being preoccupied by a phone interchange here
MR LEFTON I ve like everybody
been here a long time today but I m trying to formulate my thoughts
and I m probably not going to
be as they re probably not going to as cogent as they were earlier in the day
However I one of the challenges I think that this site faces in the struggle that has ensued
because of it is the fact that itrepresents a transition zone
it s an edge The neighbors that are here are concerned and I think rightly so because
they are onthe Page
February edge And
they are faced with the reality that while they are in a district they are on the edge of a
district And if there are property lines something else happens And this is something else And I
think we have to deal with it as best as we can as a Design Review Board and try to
respect the concerns of the adj acent but different district And Ithink we re going to
see this again and again in the City I do want to see this project
move forward I do want to see it move forward with all ofthe Staff comments including the foot
setback including the on the north and the south with the increased landscape that we talked about
on the east side I think that s extremely important And I m conflicted alittle bit here
but Irecognize that this
developer has development rights and I think that they ve actually done a good job on
a very challenging site Any time you re dealing with this notion of a transition it s
difficult It s difficult and I think as a lot of people have been saying not everybody
s going to be completely happy As I look at this feet this small change in the feet is going to
completely turnthe
parking scheme upside down Idon t how they re going to fix it but I m sure they
re going to fix it It seems like a little bit but it s going to be a big deal for
them as best I can tell So I think they re not totally happy but are willing to move forward and make it work for
the neighbors So Iam supportive of it Iwould also be supportive of moving forward to amend the Code
and close whatever this loophole may be
in the appropriate fashion But whatever it may be this exists today I think that this project
has moved forward with good faith in the envelope that they ve been given And
so Im going to be in favor of this project with those with those conditions MR
NEVILLE Thanks Steve Clothilde Page
February MS LUCE
Yes I ll try to do this quickly too because I think we have been sort of over some
of the same ideas a number of times on this First of all I just I m sorry to be so get so
laborious with this thing today but this is context partially but I m hoping that we ll all educate
ourselves to know from the Applicant s point of view and from the Board s point of view that
actually context is always going to be a perspective of the building in the neighborhood from the street
And Ithink that we don t have that entirely presented to us in this project And so
and I did have a question about the rendering and I was just curious what this refers to this
particular massing that you show in these in these perspectives here that show the building on Alton There
s some sort of greenish boxes you may see on Alton MR KARP Yeah those are
ghosted buildings which if you look at
the board and also in your package are buildings which are behind on Lenox They
are on the east side of Lenox specifically on th and Lenox MEETING TAPE STARTS TO PLAY IN
BACKGROUND MS LUCE do yes I was trying to
find those So that is that is the
MR KARP So it just shows MS LUCE That is are the neighbors is that what the neighbors
recognize also as being the case That
you have a seen from Alton you have a the vision of the view
of these other high rise these towers in the background Isit something that is a bit creative or is
that as it isas far as MR KARP There is an aerial MR NEEDLE That looks highly creative
It looks it looks deceptive and all of this is referenced
to the illegal non conforming buildings anyway
MS LUCE No because I didn t want toopenit up I just
want to know specifically Page
February TAPE CONTINUES
TO RUN IN BACKGROUND MR NEVILLE Hold
on MS LUCE Ifthat
is a if that is something that you used from aphotograph MR LEFTON Excuse me MR
NEVILLE Hold on please please
Let s have some order please TAPE STOPS Could you please back away from
the podium MS LUCE So I guess my question really
is for the architect how he arrived at those images on this rendering and if they in
fact are if one were to take a photograph from this vantage point is that what one would see
I mean is Im not really I m not trying to be provocative it s just not clear that that
s what one sees REFERS TO DRAWING Well here Ive never seen it even remotely
like that from MR KARP That s OK these are panoramic views on the bottom
from the
top of the th Street and West Avenue garage it s an existing garage we went
on the roof And what we did iswe took pictures That s the existing shopping center And this
is the it s not the Whole Foods what is it called on the corner The UNKNOWN Wild
Oats MR KARP Wild Oats thank you Right here Right here isWild Oats our site
IS right here so
it s contiguous photo montages showing that So it is an artist s rendering but in
context it does show buildings in the back which are story on loth and Lenox and story the
Admiral Tower in the back and closer up you have a building such as on th and UNKNOWN
Unintelligible MR NEVILLE Let s not have any more interruptions please Page
February I MS
LUCE Well I guess I m just guess my question isand we could all go there tomorrow and
stand right here and look east and I m just asking you before we all do that make
that little trek tomorrow if in fact this is somewhat of a creative mise enscene or if in fact
one sees those mas sings from that vantage point today MR KARP You can see them
but again it s not from the street And that s why when you go to the street
level what we did is we gave you another photo montage which is on Page A What we did
there iswe went across the street if you will and took apicture of the whole block from th to
th And you can see that there are some tower structures in the background but from our vista Ithink
this is themost this isthe vista would show the least amount of mid rises in the back
And that s why we took this picture which is a context elevation on page A MS LUCE Yeah I
m seeing that I m just saying that it is a
little bit in other words if you were if we were being asked to look at once againcompatibility having
a photo montage from this perspective that does not in fact reflect that perspective is not entirely helpful
for determining the compatibility MR KARP Yes that is correct and that s why we didn
t take it as aphoto montage
So you are right it is arendering and that s why we took a step further and provided
the real panoramics from the top of th Street and also the whole block MS LUCE OK MR KARP So
you are right it isa rendering it is not a photo montage like the back
elevation is MS LUCE
So Im just saying it puts your building in a different light having it against a background of
other fairly large buildings
that might not in fact be perceived from this vantage point That s why Ijust keep coming
back with I don t know Ithink Page
February it would
be really good to finally arrive at some sort of standards for renderings and what is expected in
terms of packages The other question I
wonder if people on this Board think that there is any point in examining some a little
bit more of rearranging of the massing involving reducing the size of the double story restaurant
to alleviate what is the impact onthe neighbors in the back Is there anything to be gained
from that MR KARP Just so we re clear it
s not a double story restaurant We have a basement parking and then we have a commercial fayade
facing Alton Road which is feet high only for the front Itconsists of in the
back of feet high commercial at the ground level and on the upper level is a parking garage So what
we did is we have feet and feet keeping it as low as we can to keep the first pedestal
if you will as low as we can We have feet and feet And so it s not story restaurant We wanted
to give the appearance to Alton Road of glass not hiding our parkingSo what we did is we held the parking
back in giving the story volume to Alton Road Does that make sense MS LUCE Oh it s
really more an appearance than an actual two story restaurant MR KARP Absolutely And the difference is that
in the
last meeting the commercial was and now it s nine That s how we got
the feet
And in my next hearings you will have a photo montage in all directions
MS LUCE Thank you And Im wondering if you know something that is very often that this Board seems to
be very conscious of when we look at a lot of
projects in North Beach is we do look at whatis considered the B side
of a building And in this case it s very important because you do have a an impact on
the neighbors so I m wondering if there is some more articulation You know thank you for removing Page
February the balconies
I gather that they re pleased with that but perhaps there is a little more detail that you
could work out with staff to make the east facing side perhaps less austere MR KARP We would
like you to make that condition upon us because we would like to sit with
staff and study that elevation We do not want it to be blank or barren we want it to be
as interesting as possible Without the balconies or however it is that we llend upwith his
project MS LUCE Thank you MR KARP Thank you
MR NEVILLE Thanks Clotilde Alex
MR DAVID First of all
to staff is the future land
use designation from th to th CD ordoes it vary It s all one land use designation
MR MOONEY From th No there s variation There s some CD there s
RO well no to th I believe is all CD MR DAVID OK So it s
one strip ofCD MR MOONEY Yeah I don t have my zoning
map in front of me but I believe that s the
case MR DAVID OK that s what I was getting at Land use and zoning it s basically
consistent onone strip MR
MOONEY Mm hm MR DAVID OK thank you MR NEVILLE Gabriela would you like to add anything
MR DAVID Wait Ihave another
MR NEVILLE I m sorry
I thought you meant thank you
that s it MR DAVID No I was getting my
thoughts Iwas trying to think of
the next is there a new building afour or five story residential building at
is it th and Lenox Page
February MR KARP
Yes there is That s correct on the corner MR DAVID So
it s a brand it s not occupied yet or is itMR KARP Not yet
MR DAVID So it s
close but is basically the same height of I m sorry MR NEEDLE AUDIENCE feet MR DAVID
It s five stories or four
MR NEEDLE AUDIENCE MR DAVID Four UNKNOWN No MR
NEEDLE AUDIENCE Four there s
a foot height limit
MR DAVID OK
but it s a new building that s what I m getting
at Also Koby MR KARP Yes sir MR DAVID The rear fayade is actually not as wide as the
front fayade It seems like
there are two wings pretty far back you know towards the unknown MR KARP What page
are you on Alex MR DAVID The one that says fourth and fifth floors I
believe Oh I m sorry level MR KARP A
MR DAVID Yeah MR KARP Yes MR DAVID Point three and four I just wanted to bring
the fact
out that the full rear fayade
is not as wide
as the front There
is some other articulation MR KARP Yes what we did Alex and that is true and I haven
t Iforgot to bring it up is that besides stepping the tower back we
also tried to bring forth the least amount of mass as we can So what you ll see as
we step further to the east the building Page
February grows in
width because we wanted to keep the narrow as you know it s like this side versus this side
so we tried to keep the narrow part to the and then widen it up a little bit as we go back
And that s what you see in the recesses of the elevations MR DAVID Ijust wanted to
add I agree with Steve I think that is much buffering back there is you can possibly
get would be great and staggered as he said It has to be dense And then I guess
Clotilde you had something that I concurred with oh the rear fayade Ireally think that that
needs a lot of work MR KARP I agree MR DAVID Thank you MR NEVILLE
Thanks Alex Gabriela MS REDFERN
Mr Karp I m a
big fan of yours and what
you ve been doing in North Beach and this building doesn t feel like a Koby Karp building for
some reason to me and Idon t know why And maybe if it did Idfeel
better about the impact that it has on the neighborhood But right now it s it iswhat everybody said it s sort
of atale of
two buildings where we have and it s a challenge for you really because you have the Alton Road side
and then you havethe Flamingo historic neighborhood side And Ithink that you need to pay a
little more attention to each side and what each side means to the people who use
it And it s going to be two separate sets of people who interact with each side of the
street The Alton Road hopefully more pedestrians will use it When we drive by there and we went there this
weekend I mean it s that section of Alton Road certainly could use a more activation and
I think that amixed use project is is an asset to it But from the backside it
s it sa horror show to those neighbors and as somebody who lives right under the monolith that is
the Fountainebleu II and whatever they do when they re going to take down the spite wall that
I m going to have to look at for the Page
February rest of
my life I know what it is to live in the shadow of an oppressive building And even though your
building doesn t rise to the level of these story monster buildings that are going up on
Collins Ave when you think about it in scale to the little tiny bungalow and the little one story
Henry Hohauser building in its backyard it is sort of daunting to them And the example I
think of where it
might work to the opposite isthat building on Collins Avenue almost to the property line of
the beach where on the Collins Avenue side it s stepped back very nicely but when you
look at it from Harding it s just this massive wall Maybe if you could take that and turn it
around and put more of the mass to the Alton Road side and make the mass so it s
not such an imposing structure to the neighborhood MR KARP I understand your comments and by the way thank you
for the
comments What we have been working with staff on and we ve still I think
could work on the rear elevation meaning the east elevation facing the neighbors and I think the same
comment came from other folks here to make it more something that we have done in
the past and Ithink we feel comfortable in doing so and want to do so
We pushed the building as far to Alton Road as we could really And if you look even at
the original design which were here a couple of months ago we had a veranda and we eliminated
the veranda and we pushed the storefront closer to Alton Road And the reason for that is to
really move the whole the whole building towards Alton Road away from the historical district Which
you know to the north has an alley but we do not have an alley and that
s why we also provided the buffering in the landscaping We went as far as saying to the
botanist neighbor that we would work with them on their landscaping in their backyards because they have they
have they re structures are set quite easterly and they have alarge backyard You can see that
in the aerials Page
February But I
do appreciate your comment I think that if you allow me the the the conditionto work
on it with staff Iwould really like to Thank you MS REDFERN Ithink
that you know we need more mixed use so that residents get more used to
having more active activities within their midst Imean that s where a lot of the conflict
in this city comes from is that that jarring niche between the liveliness ofMiami Beach and then people
who want to live here and go to sleep atnine o clock at night And so Iam
an urbanist and Ireally agree with that but then we have the sensitivity of Flamingo Park So it s it
s a beautiful project that needs just a little more work so thank you for bringing it to us
MR KARP Thanks MR NEVILLE I agree with you Ithink
it could be a
lot better with some tweaking particularly in the back elevation However I think it s come a
long way since the first the first presentation a few months ago The neighborhood behind you
is definitely a neighborhoodthat should be treasured but I don
t think that this is going to cause the downfall of the
neighborhood in any way Ithink that s a little bit overstated And I don t blame anybody for
coming forward in fact I m glad that they did because if they didn t we would ve approved
probably the one last time which would have really been a disaster in hindsight However by pushing the tower
back feet and the pedestal back feet and as Alex pointed out the width of
the tower is far less than the pedestal and removing the balconies and reducing the height of the
building Ithink you ve done a lot to accommodate any concerns or alleviate any concerns I
think you can keep going on that but Im satisfied that you can do that with
staff and that isthat rear elevation of
that perspective you were showing Ireally think is it really needs a lot of work and I pointed
that out earlier If the neighbors don tPage
February want balconies
I agree with that they shouldn t have people sitting out there in lawn chairs looking over
their backyards So Iwouldn t I wouldn tuse balconies as any sort ofdevice design device on
how to break up or sort of de solidify that fayade Someone mentioned something about stepping
back a little bit more Ithink it was Mark Ithink that s
a really good idea and I think that could be accomplished on the fourth on the fifth floor Ithink
it s just a matter of reducing the you know a couple ofthe master bedrooms a little bit or
yeah you can spread acouple of feet Youknow you ve got like eight rooms that you could
take a few feet or a few inches out of each and not really mess up the floor plan too much
and still get a step back that I think would mean a lot as far as varying that rear elevation Again
I m comfortable that you can deal with that its staff All in all Ithink it is an
attractive project And I sympathize
with the neighbors and I do hope that the zoning got changed but I also agree with
Gabriella that I think Alton Road could really use projects like this mixed use projects where there s a
restaurant or shops or something on the ground floor and people living above I think that
s what makes the city vibrant what makes a city work you know buildings like that
And I think from Alton Road which is something we haven tdiscussed at all inthis meeting
is a really nice elevation that s going to contribute to youknow to Alton Road quite a
bit And it s going to wake up that part of Alton Road a little bit I think
with other construction that s going on a little bit further south of you it s going to all come together and
be you know a nice pedestrian place that the people in the neighborhood are going to benefit from themselves So
I m in favor of it I think to move forward with those modifications on the
rear fayade to help de solidify or
break it down a little bit I think it s going to be a good project and I
think once it s built everyone will be happy with it Page
February So there
s how many are there here Five of us MR NEEDLE Koby
Karp said one thing that I really think is misleading and I just want to point
it out to you as a point of clarification If you look at the plans the second story of the restaurant
are a sq ft area Now the feet is meaningless in relation to taking sq ft off of the
fifth floor and putting it down back where it was and giving them the restaurant they had before That answer
that it s not really atwo story restaurant is Idon t think is a genuine answer
Because if you look at the plans it s very clear its two story for sq ft of
the front mass MR NEVILLE It s adouble height space yeah MR NEEDLE It could be
habitable apartments in that on the second floor above the
restaurant You know forget the little feet thing that s a that s a
gesture but it s the fifth floor that s the issue MR NEVILLE Let s face it or whatever
square feet that restaurant is with a foot ceiling is not
going to be very appealing I mean MR NEEDLE Im saying take itback to
the normal second floor for that portion that s the habitable space because the
point is square feetis displaced to the fifth floor You could do more than a
little tweaking at the top ofthis thing if you took Ms Luce s suggestion and did that
So I just don t think that s a genuine answer Ireally look I wish you would look carefully
at that reality MR NEVILLE OK MR CAREY Greg can you repeat what your suggestion was Were you proposing to set
back thefifthfloor feet MR NEVILLE Yeah a few feet
I think setback would
make a huge difference MR CAREY Fifth floor only Page
February MR NEVILLE
I mean because you know that rendering he was showing it really was a
three story sort of blank fayade with windows stuck in there MR MOONEY Koby can
you do that MR KARP I don t
know I need to study that While he was talking Iwas sketching I think it has we
have to look at how itis that we treat Alton because what we wanted to do on Alton was
to have the deep recess in the middle If you let me work with staff I would sure appreciate it and
if I can do it Iwould really like to do itI don t have a problem doing it MR NEVILLE Mm hm
OK MR MOONEY Greg do you
want to say something along the
lines of This may include the stepping back of the fifth floor of the east
side of the building MR NEVILLE Yeah sure yeah OK I mean you know I really think
that s I think it s I m hesitating to say mandatory Iwould strongly encourage
it And I think that s areal positive step youknowbecause it takes a three story what
would that be something MR KARP Hopefully when you walk by you will see it but I don t
want to guarantee
it Ithink Ican do it but Ican tguarantee it right now and if I can
do it Gregory I will MR CAREY Ifyou really want it you should probably require it You should probably make acondition MR
LEFTON I d just
like Greg I would like to play MR NEVILLE How do the rest MR LEFTON
I djust like to
play devil s advocate on that Ithink it makes sense but seeing
that were asking this applicant not to
have balconies out there I think Page
February there s
a ripple effect that we have to understand what does itdo So now we are set back what s
there Is it a planter how does it work MR NEVILLE That s
why I don t want it to be feet or feet like I mentioned two feet is actuallywhat I
said MR LEFTON I m just concerned that that
becomes just a bird stoop if its not you know I like it is well but I
m I havesomehesitancy in terms of directing it without understanding the full repercussions But Iwould certainly support
saying We strongly encourage it But to make it mandatory Im concerned
that there might be some repercussions that haven tbeenfully thought out yet because of
time MR NEVILLE OK strongly encourage is fine MR LEFTON OK and I would
fully support that MR NEVILLE think that staff
and the architect they re both listening to this conversation
I think they understand and will try very hard to accommodate that MR CAREY But you re
saying a minimum of feet then MR NEVILLE Yeah I thought of that in
my own mind that I didn t want tobecome a balcony
and once you start pushing it back of course the temptation is There you go you can make
a balcony MR CAREY Make itusable space outdoor space if you re going to do it
MR NEVILLE Right So ifit s feet
it is not that usable and I think it s one of the ways to get
around it MS REDFERN You could do French balconies right Those faux balconies that sort of the doors open on the
inside MR NEVILLE Well Idon twant
to direct them to do that MS REDFERN No but MR NEVILLE
It s something that He ll think of something Page
February MS REDFERN
He s very creative Maybe not at this hour MR KARP We
ll figure it out MR MOONEY Mr Chairman
I wrote down some notes that Ithink summarize the comments if somebody wants
to make amotion MR NEVILLE That s good MR
LEFTON I ll move to approve
MR MOONEY OK the comments Ihave are
as follows OK a new condition number B that states that
tall palm trees shall beadded in between the green buttonwoods in a manner to be approved by
staff And then on condition number I m going to add the following
The east elevation of the residential portion of the project shall be further study refined and
articulated in a manner to be approved by staff This may include the stepping back
of the east side of the fifth floor And then I m going to add another condition
that states the following a detailed plan of
the proposed garage ventilation system shall be made part ofthe building permit plans and shall
be subject to the review and approval of staff All bending of the garage shall be
through the roof or the western extremities of the north and south elevations MR LEFTON Can you add
the language that we just talked about strongly encourage Ithink every the strongly encourage to
the setback of the fifth MR MOONEY OK MR LEFTON floor MR NEVILLE That
s how I feel MR HELD Well I think staff has a sense of
the board He already
has a condition there
about looking at MRMOONEY OK I ve
got that Page
February MR LEFTON
Well it s Greg s last meeting and he feels strongly about it Iwanted to make
sure it was there MR NEVILLE Thank you
Steve Alright there was a second MR DAVID Ill second
it MR NEVILLE Alright all in favor
say II aye ALL Aye MR NEVILLE Anybody opposed Nobody
opposed MR KARP
Thank you MR NEVILLE Thank you Congratulations
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