DRB Appeal file 1 of 2 070610BELLE1
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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CITY OF MIAMI BEACH
DESIGN REVIEW BOARD
CITY HALL,COMMISSION CHAMBERS
1700 Convention Center Drive
July 6 ,2010
10:01 a .m .-11:53 a .m .
ITEM
DRB FILE NO.22347
31 Venetian Way
Belle Isle Apartments
BOARD MEMBERS
(Present)
Thomas Deluca,Chairman
Alex David
Gabrielle Redfern
Clotilde Luce
Lillian Medina
CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
Gary Held
Assistant City Attorney
On Behalf of Belle Isle Apartments
Neisen Kasdin,Esq.
Andrew W .Frey,Esq.
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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DIRECTOR MOONEY:Okay.The next
item is D R B File No.223 47,31 Venetian
Way,Belle Isle Apartments.And the
applicant is requesting design review
approval for the construction of a new
five-story multi-family building,which
will replace four existing three-story
buildings that will be demolished.
As the Board will note in the Staff
report,Staff believes the applicant has
successfully addressed most of the
concerns of Staff.There's a few issues
that still need to be resolved,but Staff
believes they can be addressed
administratively.And we would recommend
that the application be approved subject
to the conditions enumerated in the Staff
report.
BOARD MEMBER SABA:Mr.Chairman,I
have to step down for this item.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Whenever you're
ready.
MR.KASDIN:Yes,Mr.Deluca.Neisen
Kasdin and Andrew Frey,representing
Euroamerican Group,the owner of the
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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property and the developer.With us today
as well is Angel Torres,the owner's
representative;Luis Revuelta and Barbara
Pederzoli,the architects.
And I 'd like to take just a few
minutes reviewing the history and the
context of this application,and then have
Mr.Revuelta focus specifically on any
remaining design issues.
The first thing I would like to bring
to the Board's attention is that this
matter has now been pending before the
Board for a year and a half.And in that
period of time,it has gone through a
dramatic revision and response to
observations and requests from the Board,
the Staff and the neighbors as well.
To briefly review the extent of the
changes on this design in the year and a
half,among them are the following.As
you might some --and I know we have a new
Board member here as well,who may not be
familiar with the history.Initially,the
two buildings that you see on the screen
there were connected by a sky bridge.The
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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sky bridge was a two-story sky bridge,
which was --had a corridor as well in the
middle of the sky bridge.The Staff and
certain Board Members objected to the sky
bridge.So the sky bridge was reduced
from two stories to one story.And then
ultimately the sky bridge was completely
eliminated,so that the two buildings are
unconnected and stand --stand alone.
Among the other changes,the dramatic
changes that have taken place,the
southeast building,which is the small
building,which is closer to the causeway,
was significantly pulled back from the
causeway to create a large park and plaza
between the causeway and the building
itself that also serves as an entrance for
the bay walk that will --public bay walk
that will wrap the property.
The opening between the two buildings
increased twice in size to over 60 feet in
width.And anything that was above grade
level was reduced,so that the view
corridor is completely open from the
ground to the sky,wider than --much
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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wider than originally even proposed for
those on the Venetian Island and the
Venetian --on Belle Island and the
Venetian Causeway.
And then there was a great deal of
work with the facade and articulation of
the two buildings,which I will have
Mr.Revuelta review and discuss with you,
but the main thrust of those changes was
to give the two buildings separate
identities.
Now,I would say parenthetically,you
look at a building,such as Rockefeller
Center in New York,they all have one
design and one look,although they vary in
size,and I think that's the strength of
that design.But it is a matter of --
it's a matter of taste,whether you prefer
a unified look or individualized look.
And Mr.Revuelta has followed the
direction of the majority of the Board and
the Staff in creating a very different
appearance for the two buildings,as you
see --as you see there.
I would like to properly as well set
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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the context of this application.First,
as you know,the buildings that we're
seeking approval of are within the
allowable zoning for that site,the R M -1
zoning,both in terms of height,in terms
of FAR,in terms of setback.So there is
no exception from the zoning.
The zoning,which historically,until
1993,actually was R M -2 ,and allowed the
same buildings as you see on the north
side of Belle Isle.
Something that is very important to
bring everyone's attention --south side,
pardon me.Something that's very
important to keep everything in proper
context is the issue of height and the
relation of the heights of the buildings
to the Venetian Causeway.
There are four buildings on Belle
Isle,which have frontage on the Venetian
Causeway.All of those four buildings are
significantly larger,and in at least two
instances,significantly closer to the
Venetian Causeway than the proposed small
building on the southeast end of this
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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property.And I refer to on the other
side of Belle Isle,on the north side,the
Vistas building,which is six stories
tall.This is only proposed to be five.
And is much,much closer to the causeway.
This was approved under the RM-1 zoning,
not under the preceding RM-2 zoning.So
that's what the zoning allows.
Go across the street from the Vistas,
and you have Three Island Avenue,which is
also as closer,or closer to the causeway,
at 125 feet tall,with a two-story,I
believe,parking podium on the causeway.
Now,go to the other building that
faces --that fronts on the Venetian
Causeway,and that is the Grand Venetian,
which is 25 floors and 271 feet in height.
So an honest evaluation of the
context of the southeast building in
relation to the causeway shows that it is
significantly shorter than any other
building that fronts on the causeway,and
it is setback from the causeway as well.
And so,therefore,it is a very modest
statement,modest building ,very much in
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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keeping,in fact,smaller in scale,than
the other buildings.
Now,I would also point --and this
has been handed out to you.On the first
page of this document,which is handed out
to you,you see height comparison of other
buildings on Belle Isle.And on the south
side,of course,I think you all well
k now,the buildings are very tall,ranging
from eight stories in height to well over
20 stories in height.That is the
predominant --not only the predominant,
but the exclusive characteristic of
buildings on the south side of Belle Isle.
On the north side of Belle Isle,
there is a mix.There are still some
single-family homes left among that
terrace,but there is the Vista
condominium.There is the Standard Hotel.
There are the Dilido Apartments,which are
five stories tall.And so --and,of
course,the existing apartments on our
site,which are three stories tall.So
there's already a character,such that the
scale is totally appropriate.But,again,
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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as I was pre --as I would point to your
attention,please look at the buildings
that front on the Venetian Causeway,and
see how much smaller ours is,how much
more ours is setback.
I think really that's all I would
like to say at this point,and then I 'd
like to turn it over to Luis Revuelta to
discuss any remaining design issues.
At one point,I would request,is
that this matter be voted on today,either
up or down,because after this meeting,
the application will expire,so we'd like
a vote.
I think that Luis has made a
tremendous effort to accommodate the
wishes and the desires of the Board
Members and the Staff,and he'll go
through that with you.And you can also
see,at the very end,if you would,the
last page of this booklet that I handed
out to you,you'll also notice the
elevation.And I 'll show this as well to
the people in the audience --well,if you
can,if the camera can focus on that board
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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there with the elevation.Is that
possible?Well,if not,people can come
up and look and see.This --no,I just
wanted to show,people to be aware of
these elevations,and I think this
illustrates very clearly how the building
has its own style,its own design,with
significant open space,greater than any
other that fronts on the Venetian
Causeway,and it's a very handsome
addition to the neighborhood.
With that said,I 'd ask --I 'd
introduce Luis Revuelta,and request your
action on this item this morning.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Thank you,Mr.
Kasdin.
MR.REVUELTA:Good morning,my name
is Luis Revuelta,Revuelta Architecture
International.And I 'll try to make it
brief,as much as I can.
I 'd like to first be grateful to
Staff for recommending approval of the
project,which,needless to say,it's
something that w e 're very grateful for.
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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And I 'll go briefly through the
changes that we made based on the comments
that the Board made and the Staff has
made.
In looking at the comments,we
decided that it would be interesting to
try to explore a deconstruction approach
to the --originally it was the east
building,and then when we met with Staff,
Staff liked the execution of the
deconstruction approach of blending a
rectangular type of architecture,which is
more in keeping with the context of the
island.And they said that it would
probably be better,and for us to explore,
which we eventually did and implemented,
to implement that philosophy on the west
building rather than on the east building,
and try to maintain the east building as
streamlined ,as simple and as low as
possible.
And one of the arguments they
presented,and we agreed on,was that by
implementing this mixture of treatment of
layers on the facade,of a rectangular
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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form,with a curve linear form,it not
only created a further interest on the
west building,but it decreased the
optical illusion of the length of the
building.So with that,we went ahead and
agreed,and implemented the stair-stepping
approach that you see on the --on both
the --on the south facade.
Staff then further requested that we
should explore turning that around into
the east facade of the west building.And
also in order to decrease the optical
length of that building on the north side,
on the bay side,to bring it around.So,
essentially,what you have is a bracket on
the north,west,east and south side of
the west building that brackets a more
simple approach and --of the west
building,and it brackets it with that
recta-linear volume that you see in the
renderings.
We've been asked to explore other
finishes,other than concrete and stucco,
and we are definitely more than glad to
explore what other materials we can use.
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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We are presenting it to you as block and
stucco,because of the fear that if we
presented to you aluminum panels,or some
kind of frosted glass,much like we
proposed on the Monte Carlo,that if that
becomes a problem in terms of cost for a
rental building,we don't want to mislead
anybody,but we are certainly more than
happy to explore what other materials
would be available to create this
contextual approach and deconstruction
approach from a contemporary structure to
a more --to a style more contextual with
the island.
The east building,we basically slid
the two sides of the building,or the two
parts of the building,sliding against
each other.So not only we create kind of
a pointed vessel-like edge on the building
on both sides,on the east and the west,
Staff strongly requested that we explore
putting the stairs inwards rather than
outwards.We felt that the stairs were
giving us an anchor point,and thought it
was successful with some Members of the
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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Board,but,nevertheless,we explored,
implemented and submitted that option with
the stairs inside.The other one,I
think,has been brought into the
presentation just in case there were any
feelings on the Board one way or another.
We are fine with either.We have
absolutely no problems whatsoever.
Staff requested to eliminate the
traction elevators and make them cable
machine elevators,so we could have the
machine room at the bottom,and we did
that.We eliminated one of the stairs
going up to the roof,with only one stair
now going up to the roof,and it's the
west side of the east building.Again,in
an effort to maintain that east building
as low as possible.
So other than some air conditioning
units that have to go in there,and will
be screened,and we agree with the
condition from Staff to screen them,we
feel that we've done the best that we can
to basically reduce the mass of the east
building.
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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I 'd like to continue to remind the
Board,and for the benefit of the new
member,Ms.Medina,that the existing
buildings right now are at 9 '7 ",and 52
something feet from the edge,from the
east most part of this property.We have
placed our building at 30 something feet
from the property line.And we --and
it's 100 feet from the east point of this
building.So,in essence,what we've done
is created a park-like setting on the east
most part of this property,which does not
exist today.
We also have created the bay walk,
which is a requirement,and we have no
problem with it,and we're agreeing to
maintain the boardwalk open from dusk to
dawn,which is the rules of the city.
I believe --and the landscaping that
you're seeing on the drawings,as it was
requested,is the landscaping that
basically it's been specified by the
landscape architect.I believe that with
the amount of landscaping that we're going
to provide,and with the distance that are
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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being created from Venetian Causeway back
to the buildings,in a matter of three,
four,five,six years,this landscaping
will grow to approximately three stories
in height.And as much as I agree,and
I 'm grateful for all the comments that
Staff and the Board has made about the
layering and the architectural styling of
the building,this property will be
actually --the buildings would not be
seen that much because of the landscaping.
Now,we took a picture,as it was
suggested at one of our neighbors'
meetings,from the fourth floor of the
building to the south,which I forget the
name now.This unit,I think,is Scott
Diffenderfer's unit.And as you can see,
and this is juxtaposition of what's there
now,and what we're proposing.
The buildings,the existing
buildings,are three or four different
buildings in an L -shape form,but
essentially create a wall as you look
north.The view corridor now,without the
bridge,creates a greater view to the bay
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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from the south.And although this
photograph do not show it,I think the
view to the bay now is substantially
greater.It's going to be twice as much
as it is now on the east part of this
property.So this was suggested in one of
the neighbors'meetings.We thought it
was a good idea,and we took the
photographs to show that the impact on the
buildings to the south is minimal,if none
whatsoever.On the contrary,we believe,
like Professor Jean-Francois Le Jeune
said,I think I have a view to the bay now
from my unit because of the view corridor.
So with that,I 'll open it up for any
questions that --that the Board might
have.The only thing --the only thing
that we were not able to implement from
everything that was requested from us,
from the Board or from Staff,is
eliminating the one floor in the east
building,but we have tried to make it as
small as possible,as lean as possible.
And we feel that we have been very
respectful to the character of the
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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Venetian Causeway.
So with that,I 'm ready for your
questions and comments.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:I just wanted to
ask a few general questions before we got
started.
We were just handed another set of
plans dated July 6 th.What's the
difference between this set and what was
submitted on the --
MR.REVUELTA:Barbara.
MS.PEDERZOLI:Hi,Barbara Pederzoli
from Mr.Revuelta's office.
These are just updated --I mean,
some of the drawings ,renderings that we
didn't have time to finish properly,so we
added those renderings there,plus the
elevations we added --we dropped the
stairs.So on the west building as well,
there was one stair that was still
sticking out,so we drop it,and we added
some notes just to update the drawings to
the latest one.And the swan board,this
board that we have here,comparing the
massing --massing of both buildings and
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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plan.And the first board that compares
the height of the building with the
buildings on the island,that was not
included in the original set.This is
just an addendum to the original set.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Well,that's
what I 'm getting at.I notice,you know,
A 007 is new,which is the aerial.
MS.PEDERZOLI:Right.
MR.DAVID:And then A 707 is new.
MS.PEDERZOLI:Correct.The
elevations are the same,just updated .
MR.CARY:Right,707,when Staff
first looked at the revision to the design
of the southeast building,smaller of the
two buildings,the stairs and the elevator
tower were on the exterior of the
building.
MS.PEDERZOLI:Right.
MR.CARY:And we specifically
requested that they be tucked into the
architecture itself,so that it did not
become a major architectural element --a
major architectural element,and so that
would then compete with the very,you
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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know,delicate railing details of the
Venetian Causeway or with the scale.We
felt that the stair,which is very
beautiful and very radiant,you know,in
character,really commands very,very
strong attention to itself and is making
too much of a statement.We felt by
tucking the stairs back into the building,
and it allows it to be a much more
restful,relaxing,residential,quiet
residential structure,you know,even
given its larger size than the other
buildings on the north side of the
property.So it's just showing you what
the difference is between --
MS.PEDERZOLI:The difference in the
renderings,yeah.
MR.CARY:--the first design that
we looked at,which is on 707,which
showed the exterior staircase and elevator
tower and then the new version,where we
requested they use the hydraulic lift
rather than the cable lift and tuck the
element inside the building,which would
give us far superior --
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MR.DAVID:Now you're confusing me
even more,because 707 shows what you
don't want?
MR.CARY:707 shows what was
originally presented,and we asked them to
pull the elevator and the tower --and the
stair tower inside of the building,and to
switch from a cable elevator,which has
the elevator penthouse that rises above
the building and creates an even taller
element,to a hydraulic lift,which is
contained within the structure completely.
So when you look at --when you look
at 706,that is the version that we have
specifically requested that creates for a
much quieter design that slips,like a
boat slips through the water,much more
smoothly and quietly into the existing
residential environment and works better
with --
MR.REVUELTA:And 706 and707,I
think one has the blue glass and the other
one has the green glass,which is
something Staff has asked us to explore.
MR.CARY:Right.We had originally
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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considered having different color glass in
each of the two buildings.When we looked
at it,we realized it was much better to
have one color of glass,the green glass,
in both buildings.
MR.REVUELTA:But I like to make
clear that the submittal that we made
officially was with the stairs inside.
MR.CARY:Yes,but,no,I 'm saying
that the design we looked at first.
MR.REVUELTA:Yes,this is just for
comparison for history and for color of
glass,the submittal,as it's officially
made and agreed upon,was with the stairs
inside.
MR.CARY:That's what you're asking
approval on,correct.
MR.REVUELTA:So --
MR.DAVID:Okay.So --and what was
submitted today,we have two views.
MR.CARY:706 is the correct view.
That is the official application.
MR.REVUELTA:You can take it out,
scratch it.
MR.CARY:That was just a s a
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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reference.
MR.REVUELTA:Crumple it up,red X
it.
MR.DAVID:Yeah,we're going to X
707.That goes away.Okay.It just
wasn't clear in what was submitted.
And then the other,you just said
something else about height,so I think
that's important,'cause that's not on the
new July 6 th.
MS.PEDERZOLI:One of the stairs on
the west building was not at the proper
height,so we adjusted that height.
MR.CARY:Downward.
MS.PEDERZOLI:Yeah,downward.So
that's in the new elevation that you have,
but that's something we already agreed on,
and it was not in drawings when we
submitted.So we just wanted to make it
clear that it's going to be done.
MR.DAVID:The second comment,the
second comment is,have you met with the
residents,the neighborhoods,since the
time of --since the June 18th plans?
MS.PEDERZOLI:Yes,we have met a
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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couple of times with the neighbors.
MR.REVUELTA:Yes,we have.
MR.DAVID:But after these were
completed?
MS.PEDERZOLI:Yes.
MR.DAVID:I just want to make clear
that this is what they saw.
MS.PEDERZOLI:Yes,it is.
MR.CARY:They haven't seen all the
drawings that were submitted today,but
they saw the final drawings that were in
the packet.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Right,which is
basically --
MR.CARY:Correct,yeah.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:I 'd like --I mean,
I 'd like to get public comment.Is there
anyone from the public who would like to
make comment?If so,please step up and
state your name and address.
MS.SUSSKIND:May I ?Testing
testing.Good morning.Thank you for the
chance to speak,especially since we're
just celebrating the birth of our country.
In another country,we might be jailed for
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a meeting here.We're not.We're all
here.Good morning.If you'll give me a
minute.
MR.HELD:Your name and address,for
the record.
MS.SUSSKIND:Yes,I shall.My name
is Willa Sue Susskind.The last letter of
my last name is a D as in Daniel.
Which has precedence,a judgment from
a state court or a city ordinance?One of
my neighbors asked me this.She remembers
when there was a law case that the
judgment of the court said there is a
three-story height on the buildings,on
the same side of the causeway,as the 31
Venetian building.I don't know.I 'm not
as old as she is.I did seek the advice
of several people to find out was there
such a court case,and does this apparent
contradiction really occur?
I was able to find a reference,and I
believe Gary Held and a Mr.Richard Lorber
have a copy of this status report,which
shows that the Venetian Island's
Improvement Association,Inc.versus the
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City of Miami Beach,and I have an
activities number.I don't know if this
is one of several documents and several
questions about this property,or if this
is only an isolated case,because I 'm not
a lawyer and I don't know how to get that
information.
What I 'd like to find out is,is
there,in fact,this case?It seems it's
been going on for four years.A lady
named Manette Benson (phonetic),and a
lady named B .Dershlag (phonetic)were
working on it,and the status report
refers to the year 1990.
I have a call of action to you,
please.I believe you're the presiding
officer today.You're the presiding
officer,good morning,Mr.Deluca.My
call to action is this:To please ask
for,and make available to us,records
through the city's attorney's office,so
that we can all sit down together and see
if the city ordinance is correct.It is a
five-story building.If a judgment in a
state court is correct,the height for
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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this building is three stories.
I 'd like to address this,and say to
Mr.Revuelta and his company,how much I
appreciate the work that he has put into
this project.It is devastating to come
with an original project,and then after
it's been tweaked,to watch your project
change and yet I think he has dealt fairly
with everyone in his attention and his
desire to make the building compatible.
A quote that I have for you is to
build your dream castles in the air,
that's where they belong,and under them
build a firm foundation.I am asking you
to establish what is the firm foundation
for this building across the way.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Thank you very
much.
MR.HELD:Mr.Chair.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Please.
HELD:So because a reference was
made to possible judicial action in this
case,I 've had a couple of conversations
with Ms.Susskind,also with the City
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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Clerk's Office,with our --with my office
manager to try and obtain any records that
might be in storage.I 've also spoken
with former Commissioner Nancy Leibman.
To our knowledge,there is no judgment
that restricts the height on the south
side of Belle Isle --sorry,north side.
Sorry.There is a reference in the City
Clerk's file of two court cases that were
filed by the Venetian Island's Improvement
Association,dating back to 1990.Both
were voluntarily dismissed.That's not a
judgment that has any effect on these
proceedings.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Thank you.
MS.WERBLOW:May I speak now?
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Please,ma'am,
state your name and address.
MS.WERBLOW:My name is Marcella
Werblow,and my address is 16 Island
Avenue,and I 've lived there for 45 years.
I 've seen a lot of changes.I 'm probably
the only native born Miamian you've ever
seen my age.I know I 'm the oldest one in
Dade County,so my memories go back quite
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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a way.
There was reference made to the fact
in south end of Belle Isle is full of
high-rises.I don't say that it isn't .
When I moved there,we were an eight-story
building,45 units,and we sat there all
alone.The other two buildings that were
closer to the Venetian Causeway,one was
built earlier,but the Nine Island Avenue
and all the rest of them came later.
My recollection of the beautiful
north side has been the same as it is now.
I think they were built in the 1939,
somewhere before the '42 mark that you all
have.And those beautiful cottages that
are there,the three-story building that
is there,that was torn down,tear down,
has a feeling of Mediterranean,quiet and
solitude.It's lovely.The spa
managed --they try to go up higher.
That's what I believe brought the lawsuit
on,and they gave up,they sold the
property,and the man who bought it has
done a beautiful job and he seems to be
happy with where he is now.
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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I believe that the buildings that are
being projected,being talked about now,
are much too modern,and they don't give
you that Mediterranean look.I think
they're too high.Fifty feet is what the
law is,but they're going to be up 68 feet
by the time you add all the things they
put on the roof.That's almost a
high-rise in itself.
I did want to start to thank Staff,
but I think the Design Review Board Staff
report was very,very good.I know a lot
of time and energy went in it,and I
commend them for all of their homework.
I also want to thank Mr.William
Cary.I was talked to rather insolently
by a young man representing this project,
and he came to my rescue,and I think let
him know that his remarks were
unnecessary.I appreciate it.
I just want to say that to tear down
those three-story buildings with the
beautiful red tile,Spanish tile roof,and
put something as modern as this is going
to be,and as large as it's going to be,
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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is out of context with the rest of the
neighborhood on that side.And I feel
that what they have there now is lovely.
The density of their building that
many more units is going to affect life on
Belle Isle.It's going to affect --I
know that this is not your problem,the
traffic that will ensue from that small
bridge,or the infrastructure,but our
infrastructure is pretty bad now.We
absolutely are flooded when we get a
large,heavy rain.There's nothing that
--two cars were stalled a few weeks ago
in that storm,and we cannot take care of
any more.I feel that the integrity of
the island should be kept the way it is.
I don't think we need a modern building on
that side.And to try to correct,as one
of the people that was speaking said,to
say the south side is overbuilt,they're
correct.That doesn't mean the north side
now has to make the same mistake.
Thank you,and I appreciate your
time.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Thank you,ma'am.
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MS.FEINER:I wasn't planning to say
anything,but my name is Judy Feiner,and
I live at 11 Island Avenue.
There is so much traffic on the
Venetian Causeway,cars and buses and
everything else,but the Venetian Causeway
is a getaway.In case of a hurricane,
they advise people to use,besides the
McArthur Causeway,but to use the Venetian
Causeway.And all these extra cars,60
extra apartments,would be maybe 70 cars,
80 cars more.It really is going to be
very difficult for the island to --you
know,people going --using the Venetian
Causeway in case of accidents or
hurricanes,and especially traffic.If
anything happens on the McArthur Causeway,
we can't even cross to get to the north
side of the island,living on the south
side.The traffic is so heavily,so bad.
Thank you.
Oh,incidentally,our lawyer on the
case in 1990 is now a judge,Judge
Fletcher.It was his first big job.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Thank you.
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MS.FEINER:You're welcome.
MS.GILLMAN:Barbara Gillman.
Excuse me.Barbara Gillman,16 Island
Avenue.And I was also born here,
Marcella.
Anyway,I just have three things to
say.
One is that when the landscaping is
going to take five years to grow,we're
going to see everything.Why not plant
larger trees?That's one thing that I 'd
like to say.
Second thing is,security on the
boardwalk.That's going to be not --not
be dawn to dusk.It says nine --unless
you've changed it.Early in the morning
till nine at night.I will hope that you
will think about security on the
boardwalk.
And then of course we get to traffic.
The traffic that's going to occur when
they are building this building,the
traffic that's going to occur when we talk
to the people involved in it,when we had
our meetings,about where is the garbage
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truck going to go,where are people going
to deliver things.It was sort of iffy.
And we're not quite sure where that
traffic is going to be,so I hope you will
consider all of this.
I see your different requests,and
have they all been met is my question to
you,that you have all kinds of ideas.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Thank you.
MS.SUSSKIND:If I may,the judge on
the case was John Fletcher.He has since
passed away.He passed away in February
of this year.You're shaking your head,
so you know about Judge Fletcher.
I notice in the recommendations of
the Staff that it says it shall be reduced
by one story pending the review board.
Marcella,is that on Page 8 of the 14-page
report?It shall?Ms.Medina?And I
understand that the Board is highly
responsive to the Staff,so I ask you
please again to take another look at that.
The second thing I 'd like to point
out in terms of security,if I 'm not
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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mistaken,the ground floor apartments of
the buildings,each apartment is going to
have access directly out to the street,
and I 'm wondering about security.We have
a rental building that the minimum rental
is six months,and I don't intend to cast
any aspersions on people who rent.What
I 'm pointing out is it depends upon the
watchfulness and the mindfulness of the
individual tenants in that building.If
even one of those people leaves the door
unlocked during the day,that is a direct
access into that entire apartment complex.
Pardon me?Yes,so if each --if I enter
your garden door,and walk through your
front door into the building,I 'm on the
property,or I 'm not on the property?
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:You don't get
into the building.You would get into my
apartment.
MS.SUSSKIND:Yes.And is that the
only door into your apartment,the garden
entry.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:I don't think you
can enter the apartments from the garage.
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MS.SUSSKIND:Do we know?
MR.REVUELTA:You can enter the
apartment from both sides,as Staff has
requested entrance to the outside to
enhance the urban character of the
neighborhood.We are agreeing with that.
MS.SUSSKIND:The architect is
saying you can have more than one
entrance.You can enter the apartment
from both sides,and that the Staff asked
for that garden entry.Am I correct?
Please come up.
MR.REVUELTA:You can enter the
apartment from both sides.I understand
Staff is requesting,and we are agreeing,
that also be an entrance from the south
side to those apartments,to enhance the
urban character of the neighborhood,and
we are agreeing with that request.As a
matter of fact,we had it originally.So,
at this point,whatever the Staff and
whatever the Board wants,we'll do.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:I mean,there's a
similar condition in the Grand Flamingo,
ma'am,where all the rental apartments
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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have entrance that way.And worst case
scenario,you can have that type of a
trespass.I have not heard of anything
that happens.I mean,it's a common type
of design.And there is a risk.I t
really boils down to the responsibility of
the tenant to keep their facility --their
unit locked.
MS.SUSSKIND:Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:But thank you for
that.
MS.SUSSKIND:And I have one
question,if I may,and thank you for your
time.
When it's stipulated that there's a
five-story building,it was my impression
that that meant five stories,whether
they're inhabited or not,but I notice
that in the writings that there's a big
difference made between habitable and
non-habitable.And I don't know how the
statute reads,and I challenge you on
that.If a five-story building is a
five-story building,then that means the
appurtenances for elevators and stairwells
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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and everything else having to do with it
is five stories.
So would you please explain that
difference to us,how a five-story
building can be six?Thank you.
MR.CARY:Stair penthouse is an
elevator penthouse.Mechanical penthouses
are allowed to exceed five-story height,
up to 25 feet maximum.
MS.SUSSKIND:Thank you.And thank
you for the chance to speak.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:I had a question,
ma'am,while you're up there.What was
the tenor,what was the result of your
meeting with the applicant?Didn't you
have a meeting recently,the residents
recently with the --
MS.SUSSKIND:Yes,we did.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Was there a
consensus?What did you --
MS.SUSSKIND:About what,please?
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:What is the
status of your --of the neighborhood
opinion,acceptance or your --oh,I 'm
sorry.Okay.
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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MS.SUSSKIND:I 'm a Libra,so I need
to give you both sides.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Okay.I 'm sorry.
I wasn't aware that --I thought we were
closing out the public comment.
MS.SUSSKIND:I 'll step down now for
Scott Diffenderfer.Thank you.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Thank you.
MR.DIFFENDERFER:Good morning,I 'm
Scott Diffenderfer.I live at 20 Island
Avenue,and I 'm the president of the Belle
Isle Residents Association.I want to
thank everybody for all the hard work
you've all put into this,particularly
Staff.
We've been going through this
process,and we've met with the --with
the applicant on several occasions.
Back in March of 2009,we did write a
letter to the architect with some
conditions that it would take for the
neighborhood to support the project.I
have to give a lot of credit for all the
issues that have been resolved,
particularly removing the bridge,
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expanding the view corridor,changing the
facade to break up the perception of such
a huge long building,the addition of
landscaping that's been proposed.Those
are all things that we --that we're very
happy with,and we appreciate the help.
We're still --a couple of the
conditions.We're back to the five
stories versus four-story height.And we
did want some concession with breaking out
that long building and the height.That's
not --not obviously been addressed,and I
understand why the architect has not
addressed that.
In addition,the concerns that are
maybe not this Board's purview are going
to be with the infrastructure and with the
traffic.We've had,again,since this
project has been proposed,two massive
floods.The city still has not been able
to rectify the pump station.And so the
sentiment of the neighborhood is not one
more unit should be built there until this
has been fixed,and it's not been fixed.
And while I understand that's not your
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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problem,I do.It is the feeling of the
neighborhood that there's just --there's
too much there already.The city is not
dealing with it properly.
And for that point,in addition to
these other design points,the
neighborhood is not able to support the
project at this inception.So thank you.
MS.GILLMAN:He asked about the --
I 'm sorry,coming back.You asked about
how the neighborhood feels.At the last
meeting,when the gentleman showed the
slides and spoke about it,unfortunately
two of the buildings on Belle Island were
having their own board meetings,and the
subject was assessments,so nobody could
go.They were all at their own board
meetings,which was planned months in
advance,so --but they're all against it.
MR.KASDIN:Mr.Chair,just for the
record,and for the benefit of the new
Board Member as well,a couple of things
to remind you of.
Number 1 ,there's only a modest
increase in the total number of units over
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the existing buildings.Currently,the
existing buildings do not have enough
parking spaces to handle the tenants of
that building,therefore,a lot of the
parking is on Island Avenue,and it
contributes to crowded parking conditions
on Island Avenue.This new building will
contain adequate parking to house all the
residents and visitors'needs as well.So
we will alleviate parking conditions on
Island Avenue.
The second thing I would point out
with respect to the flooding,which is the
city storm water issue,the construction
of new improvements will provide for
improved on-site storm water handling,
which will then help the situation in
terms of storm water on Belle Isle,
because the system on the property itself
will be better than the existing system or
lack of system on that property.So all
the conditions,this is a net plus for
Belle Isle in terms of flooding,in terms
of parking,and has no impact of any
measurable consequence at all with respect
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to parking or traffic --with respect to
traffic,I should say.
MS.WERBLOW:I notice that this
first came up in 2009.I was not aware of
it.I understand by law you send out one
notice that you were going to --they're
going to appeal to you to build this
building.There's been one continuance
after another,month-to-month,asked by
the developers.We got no notices.I got
no notices there was a continuance from
January to February to March.And there
would be a great number of other residents
that feel as we do,but this is the middle
of July.Fifty percent of our residents
are up north.And I feel that this was
manipulated to the point where it was held
in July last year,and July this year and
the developers kept asking for a
continuance.And it feels --I feel that
they did that knowing that there be no one
here to give them problem.
MR.KASDIN:Mr.Chair,just very
briefly.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:If I may,Mr.
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Kasdin.
Ma'am,we've been involved in this
process for over a year,and we've been
working with them and we've been talking
about neighborhood meetings.There was no
--I do not feel that there was any
manipulation regarding the continuances.
MS.WERBLOW:But they requested --
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:I understand,
ma'am,but part of their continuances were
also on some of the requirements that we
were putting on them in regards to design
and changes and whatnot.And some of our
requirements of revising their project
were at a point where they could not do
the work within one week and then resubmit
to us.They would --needed an extra
month.So instead of showing up next
month,it was a two-month process.So
that --and that's part of that --that
contributed to the continuances.I really
don't feel that there was --we've --
we've been --there's been times when
we've said have you met with the
neighbors?And there are times when
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they've said we haven't yet,and we
emphasized you need to meet with the
neighbors.But to the point where there
was an actual manipulation,I don't think
it was manipulation,ma'am.I think maybe
we could have said there could have been
improved communication at times,but I
wouldn't go as far as saying there was
manipulation to keep you and the
neighborhood out of the loop.
MR.KASDIN:Mr.Chair,if I may,
just for the record.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Go ahead.
MR.KASDIN:To the complete
contrary,we have always come before this
Board seeking approval.The continuances
have not been at our initiation,although
they have been with our agreement.A
number of the continuances were because of
the requests of island residences --
residents to have more input.And there
were a number of meetings,perhaps four or
five meetings,with the island residents.
So I would respectfully say that the
continuances are more due to the desire to
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get input from the island residents,and
in response to changes.We've always been
prepared to move forward.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:I agree,Mr.
Kasdin.There was every other reason
except manipulation for the continuances,
so no problem whatsoever.
Ma'am,please.
MS.SUSSKIND:Thank you again.
I 'd like to disagree with Mr.Kasdin.
The original use,if I 'm remembering,is
120 apartments are there now.Intended
are 1 81.For him to say that that's a
modest increase,when it represents a 50%
increase,I believe is to direct you in
the wrong direction as far as the numbers
are concerned,from 1 20 present to 181
now.Thank you.
MR.KASDIN:I don't want to continue
this soliloquy,monologue,or soliloquy,I
should say,but the island has a few
thousand units on it.The addition of 60
units is di minimus and has no impact.
MR.LEEDS:My name is David Leeds.
I live at 20 Island Avenue.
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One subject that I 'm concerned about,
I don't know that I 've heard much mention
of it,is the congestion.I was at both
meetings that the architects --was held
with the architects of the island.
Is the congestion during two-year
construction period of demolition and
construction,the dirt,the mess,
everything that's going to be created
right there,where most of the residents
who live in the buildings on the --I
guess it's on the east side --sorry,is
that on the south side of the Venetian
Way,it's going to be a nightmare there.
And they say that they're going to bring
the workers in from other places.I
supposed they will.I can't argue with
that.I don't really know,but --and I
don't know whether this is a proper matter
for you to consider in your vote,but it's
certainly going to be a two-year nightmare
or more for all of us who live there.
I have a partial view of the complex
now from my apartment,and I 'm not looking
forward to all the mess,and the
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congestion and everything that's going to
be there.So I certainly would appreciate
you taking that into consideration.
Thank you.
MR.REVUELTA:If I can make just one
comment on this,actually a
non-architectural comment,and more so on
behalf of the new member.
I think it's important to remember
that this property has been owned by the
same owner for 20 some years.That this
property used to have a substantially
higher density and intensity,and 200 feet
in height.He's owned this property all
through all that.He got down zoned from
200 feet to 50 feet.He probably lost
mathematically 75%,or three quarters of
the height that he had.And I have not
figured out the density or the --but it
was reduced.So I think that after owning
this property for so many years,for the
owner to continue to have to give up
further and further,I 'm speaking now not
as an architect,but I just don't feel
that it's just.
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And I feel that we've tried to do the
best possible job that we've been able to
do in terms of architecture,to be
sensitive,and we've put ourselves aside
as architects,and basically try to cater
to the group of neighbors,to Staff and to
this Board,so I 'd like to leave you with
that.
Thanks.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Ma'am,I really
would like to start with Board comment.
So if we could --
MS.SUSSKIND:One last question,if
I may.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Go right ahead.
MS.SUSSKIND:Thank you.I
appreciate your indulgence.
Can you tell me what did happen to
the Staff recommendation,that the height
of the southeast portion of the project,
et cetera,shall be reduced by a minimum
of one floor?And it's on Page 8 of the
Staff report.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:That's one of the
conditions that's on the report.
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MS.SUSSKIND:Yes.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:It will be
discussed in Board comment.
MS.SUSSKIND:Thank you.
And does your purview extend to the
way the pilings are drilled?
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Not --no,ma'am,
they're not.
MS.SUSSKIND:If it does,we're in
favor.If it does go ahead with auger
drills instead of the pounding.Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Okay.I 'd like to
hold --hold Board --hold public comment
for now,so we can start Board comment.
Okay.Can we get Board comment?
Go right ahead.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Thank you so
much for all your comments.I really
appreciate it.
And I understand,Mr.Revuelta,and
Barbara,that you've all been making some
changes.
I still have some clarification just
on the Staff report.Just to confirm,we
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are looking at 181 units?
MR.REVUELTA:Yes.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:As opposed to
178.And 315 parking spaces instead of
3 16,'cause that's referenced in the Staff
report.Okay,so that's confirmed.
Also,we don't have a survey in our
packet.And I 'm just curious as to the
existing parking that's on Venetian Way,
right between the two buildings that are
being proposed.That small area that's
got some median and some landscaping,is
that part of your project or not?
MR.REVUELTA:No.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:No.That's
outside of your --but you will be
eliminating the nine or so parking spaces
that exists right now on Venetian Way,
that are abutting Venetian Way?Yeah,
you're removing those?
MS.PEDERZOLI:Yeah,internalizing
it.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Okay.Thank
you.
I 'll hold my comments until later,or
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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on the design.
MR.HELD:Who is Vice Chair?Go
ahead.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:I 'll take over.
Just in time.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Thank you,Mr.
Chair.
I don't even know where to start.
Much better.I think you have worked
really hard,Mr.Revuelta.I think that
when you first came here and trucked out
Regatta II,we were hoping that you
would --and Barbara would use your
talents to come up with something fresh
and new for the Venetian,and I think you
have.So although I feel for you,this
design by committee,which is not the way
great architectural minds like to work,I
think that you have risen to the occasion
and have come forth with a --what I think
is a beautiful new project for the
Venetian.Notwithstanding the neighbors'
concerns about height and density.I
think if you take that from the picture,
and you just look at what you're proposing
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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to build on the site,and the
incorporation of the bay walk that you all
are proffering,that's not required.That
you all are offering to the city,I think
it's a beautiful thing.
I think moving the buildings away
from the Venetian,'cause I ride there all
the time,I think that's a wonderful asset
to the livability of the whole island.I
think that you have worked really,really
hard,and I commend you and commend your
long birthing process of this.It was
almost wailing in the time that you
birthed this building.
My concern happens is a technical
one,and we've gone back and forth on what
makes a luxury building and how it's going
to operate.And I 'm concerned now with
you moving --although I understand the
aesthetics of moving to a hydraulic with a
jack rather than a traction elevator.
Five floors is really the upper most
limits that a jack elevator will work.
And so now you're only going to have one
elevator in the little building,and it's
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going to be a freight elevator?There's
going to be two.One is a freight
elevator and one is not?
MR.REVUELTA:The two are going to
be passenger,but in case of moving or
freight,then one will be used as freight
and the other one will continue to be used
as passenger.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:And they're
both going to be jacks or is one going to
be --
MR.REVUELTA:Both are going to be
hydraulics,but that's what Staff
requested and we're agreeing to it.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I 'm just
concerned about the feasibility of that
with a rental unit,and doing all that
heavy move in and move out to the fifth
floor on a jack all the time.
MR.REVUELTA:If you want,we can
explore.Please don't put it as an
absolute condition.We can explore adding
another elevator,but I would request to
please --
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I don't think
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it needs another elevator.I think one of
them needs to be a traction with a heavier
weight capacity.
MR.REVUELTA:I think if you do
that,that creates an elevator machine
room,and that goes towards what Staff is
trying to do,which is to maintain the
profile of this building.
Now,what we can explore,and I don't
know if it's now available for this type
of building,is the elevators that have
the machine on top of the elevator.
They're machine room-less the machine
itself rides with the elevator,and it's
like a traction,but it's traction tracted
by the own elevator.We can certainly
explore that,and you can put it as part
of a condition.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I 'm just --
MR.REVUELTA:If it's available,
we'll explore the use of it.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I 'm just
concerned with the longevity of this
elevator on a jack used heavily for moving
in and out.
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MR.REVUELTA:Well,I do agree with
you.And that's what we were --'cause
hydraulic elevators are good for two,
three,four stories.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Right.
MR.REVUELTA:Once you go to five,I
actually think maximum,maximum is six,
depending on floor to floor height.But
the monospace,which is what they call the
elevators,are traction elevators that
they do not need a machine room.So I
would beg from the Board to let us work
out those options with Staff,and we
certainly will be open minded about it.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I mean,I
understand Staff's objectives about
clearing a roof,and I think that changing
the elevator from a traction to a jack is
almost a no-brainer thing when you're
concerned about the roof.But as a
property manager,I know what it is to
operate these buildings when people are
really living in them.And a five-story
hydraulic elevator is,in my mind,a
disaster waiting to happen.I mean,
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you've got this thin piston going up and
down carrying everybody's possessions in
and out for these move outs,and I just
don't think that it's possible.So I
think this idea of having machine-room
less traction elevators is a good one.I
think it adds more money to your project.
MR.REVUELTA:It does.But they're
call monospace.And we'll be more than
glad.Staff was very concerned,and we
said yes.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:But I think
that,you know,looking five,10,15 years
down the line with this building,I think
that the owners would be happier not
having to dig out that jack after two
years --
MR.REVUELTA:I do agree with you.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:--when it
starts to bend at the top.And five
floors is really --
MR.REVUELTA:At this point,
whatever the Board wants,we'll follow.
MR.CARY:Also,Staff is
recommending four stories for that
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building,not five stories.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:You have just
been beaten down with this,haven't you?
MR.REVUELTA:The only thing we've
not been able to give up is the extra
story on this building,just because we
feel that we've done tremendous amount of
sighting,tremendous amount of everything
that we can to be respectful to Venetian
Causeway.
I think the introduction of the park
or park-like setting on the east part is
something that goes a long way to
respecting the historical quality of
Venetian Causeway.But,other than that,
at this point,like you said,no yellow,
no yellow.I like yellow,but no yellow,
no yellow.I thought some members of
Staff liked yellow,but --
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:And my last
comment will be,I don't know how the
Board --the rest of the Board will go,I
liked it with one building blue glass,one
building green glass.I like that a lot.
MR.REVUELTA:You liked the combi --
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well,at the end --
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I liked it a
lot.
MR.REVUELTA:--I will let my
fellow peer architect,Mr.William Cary,
discuss that,but I just put myself aside.
Whatever I 'm told to do,we'll specify it.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And thank you to all the neighbors
who came out.It's wonderful to see you
all coming here today.Thank you.
MR.CARY:I think we already have --
don't we have a blue and green diamond
currently?So we thought it be better to
have different design,but same product
glass ultimately.
Also,Staff is perfectly fine with
the applicant exploring an equipment
room-less elevator.We think that's an
excellent suggestion.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I mean,I see
where you were trying to go,but,
practically,William,a five-floor
hydraulic elevator is just not going to
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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last.It's just not.
MR.CARY:Well,we were also
thinking of a four-story building.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Good morning,Mr.
Revuelta,Ms.Pederzoli.
I wanted to start out by --with an
apology,actually,because at one of the
last meetings,I think my voice became a
little strident,and I think that simply
reflected a frustration,because this has
been such a long slog.And I remember a
dialogue with your team before on this
Board that to my mind resulted in a much
better project,which I 'm sincerely sorry
it never got built.And this has been
since,you know,a year and a half now.
And I think my voice got a little strident
because I was making the analogy with 5 th
and Alton,which to me is an equally
important and visible site,as is this
site.And I was getting anxious that we
might --you know,looking at your
imploring looks,and the stern looks from
your attorneys,you know,that there might
be some pressure on this Board to --you
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know,we have empathy.You put in a lot
of time,spend a lot of work,you've made
many efforts,but I ,to this date,do not
find that the result is sufficiently
positive to warrant being approved today.
And just --I know I have probably
been the most vocal person with concerns
about this project from the inception.I
would point out that in a year and a half,
there has never been a motion to approve
this.So if it were only my strident
opinions,it would have gotten approved a
long time ago,but clearly there was not a
great deal of enthusiasm for this project
for a very long time.That may change
today.
So I just wanted to point out that I
think you all could have started to
respond much earlier in the process than
you did,and we find ourselves today at a
kind of a ,you know,the last gasp.
I think there were incremental
changes that you all were making for a
while.You know,you'd shave off some
stuff here and you would mess with the
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balconies a little bit.And I think this
Board was actually very forbearing,'cause
I think we're in good faith,and I think
we made a lot of suggestions,you know,
referring to the W .If you really insist
on using a lot of glass,you know,look
what they did,look at what other projects
did.
My problem today,as it has been from
the beginning --and I would like to point
out this is absolutely no reflection on
your talent,your capacities.I came
across,sort of interesting,in the
Financial Times,just two weeks ago.I 've
never seen an editorial --this is not an
opinion piece,an editorial that has to do
with a very famous architect whose project
was rejected.And I just --reading
along."The plans for the site,a series
of uninspiring glass stumps designed by
the modernist Lord Rogers were
inappropriate to their surroundings."And
I hate to say,the description of glass
stumps immediately brought up what we have
been looking at for a year and a half.
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And it's not a question of talent and your
design.In my mind,could go very well in
a number of other sites.I still find
that it is entirely insensitive and
inappropriate to the context of this site.
So it has nothing to do with your talent,
your capacities.It has to do with what
is best for this corner and entrance of
the Venetian.It's not only the
neighbors'perception of your project and,
you know,the hassles that are going to
come from construction.This is something
that we will all be looking at for a long
time,and from a cross the bay and from all
sides.
And I think that the progress that
has been made on the larger building does
not in any way attenuate the fact that
that is still a broad side.
And,basically,the way you describe
the developer's intentions ,and
motivations and his whole project is he
needed parking.He's not getting that
many more units.And basically you are
losing something that is like a very
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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charming Loise field (phonetic)campus,
which had a lot of potential.I think a
developer could do something really
interesting with that campus.
Notwithstanding what Mr.Kasdin is always
saying,it actually does create an
impression of permeability,which is a
word I 've used over and over again.So I
think you're losing this campus.You're
getting this clearly improved larger
building.And,for me,you know,steps
have been made for it in the larger
building.It is somewhat more nuance now.
It is somewhat less of a glass stump.But
I find that the other smaller building has
actually taken steps backwards.So,to
me,it remains a glass stump.
And I don't know if all these
conditions will be met today.I don't
know if you're going to sacrifice the
floor.So far I think the developer has
always resisted things,or is in the other
dialogue that this Board had with you on
Regatta II.The developer was much more
willing to compromise on --you know,
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turning some studios into one bedrooms ,
giving up some parking.In this case,we
are actually finding we have more units
are being crammed on this site again.
So I give you credit for working,and
I just think that the --I think that the
obligation of this Board is really more
towards the context,the perception of
Venetian for the next,you know,20 years.
And as much as I admire all the work and
effort you put into it,I do not still
think that this is --I think the word
was,uninspiring glass stumps.I 'm sorry
to say that sort of reminded me a little
too much of this project.
Thank you.
MR.REVUELTA:I 'd like to say that
I 'm just flattered to be in the same name
--being named in the same mention as
Richard Rogers.
MS.GRAHAM:I 'm just here from Costa
Brava and I just want to --
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Name.
MS.GRAHAM:Kathy Graham.I 'm on
the Board of Costa Brava.And I just want
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to say --I came late,because I do work.
I just want to say that this project
is ill conceived for a million reasons.
I 'm sure everyone else has brought them
up.But for every person that was able to
come today,there are easily 20 people
that live on this area that are against
this development,not because we're
against development or change,but because
it doesn't add anything and it only causes
more problems.
So we would appreciate your support
in looking,as this member has stated,to
the whole picture,and just not
rubber-stamping anything because it's a
developer.
Thank you.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Okay.Luis,I
just wanted to have you reaffirm that the
view corridor between the two buildings
will be at a level such as --such that
someone on the sidewalk will be able to
see through and see the bay and not be
blocked by the pool or any drives.
MR.REVUELTA:I hereby reaffirm that
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we will do that until we're blue in the
face,and are threatened to be taking my
license away by FEMA or other municipal,
state or national organization.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Okay.Thank
you.And I appreciate --you know,
really,I think that the canopy solution
was the better way to go on this project.
It's just thinner,airier,and I think it
works better.
Could you point out --you're adding
some stucco or concrete balconies or
whatever to the front side of the
building.
MR.REVUELTA:Actually,we're doing
that on the southeast and north part of
the west building.And Staff has
recommended that we continue to work with
them in the detailing and how to carry
that through.And we've agreed to do
that.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Yeah,because on
704 there's ,you know,the diagram,it
fronts Island Avenue.It's very three
dimensional,the graphic.There's nothing
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showing same three dimensional,I guess,
look on the bay side.And I just wanted
to make sure it's --
MR.REVUELTA:We are doing that.
You can put it as part of the condition.
We're agreeing with Staff to further work
on the refinement of that,including what
materials we can use to execute the
layering effect of the two geometric
forms,the rectangular form versus the
other one.
MR.CARY:Also,the Staff condition
recommends that stepping be continued
further north on the bay side.
MR.REVUELTA:And we have no problem
with that.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:So one or two
more banks of --
MR.CARY:Yes,it will be at least
equal to stepping that we have on the
south side facing the causeway.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Should I bring
up the main issue?
I think,in my mind,the last point
of discussion is the --3 A ,the height of
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the southeast portion of the project.
Staff is recommending minimum one foot --
you know,that smaller building be reduced
by one floor.So I think that's ,in my
mind,a point of discussion.
You're not agreeing to that,and the
Staff is been I think saying that f or most
of the past year and a half.I 'd like to
see at least a portion of the top floor be
knocked down,so just a stepping up.But
I think that's what we're going to leave
it,you know,discuss that.
MR.KASDIN:Mr.Chair,Mr.David,I
would like to point out that this is --
this recommendation is carried forward
from the very beginning.I would like to
point out the great mitigation that the
change in the design has worked by
stepping back the building,by making this
building more elliptical in shape.And so
I believe that it --they very
successfully have reduced any perceived
impact that would have on the causeway by
the open space,by the shaping of it.And
I would again point out that in context
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with the other three buildings that front
right on the Venetian Causeway,this is
far and away the most minimal.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:And I agree.
You know,that's --again,what is the
distance between the sidewalk to the small
building?
MR.REVUELTA:It's 32 feet,32 and a
half feet,as opposed to nine foot seven
that it is now,32 feet three inches.And
then in the other direction,it's 100 --
Barbara?It's 99.8 --
MR.KASDIN:You need a microphone.
MR.REVUELTA:Versus 52.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:The distance
proposed from the causeway now to this
building is,you said --
MR.KASDIN:Barbara.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:From the
existing sidewalk to the proposed
building,the closest point to the
sidewalk is?
MS.PEDERZOLI:At this point?
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Yeah.
MS.PEDERZOLI:9 9 .8 .
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BOARD MEMBER DAVID:99.8 versus the
Vistas,which is minimal.Three Island,
which is even worse.So the point I 'm
making,you know,I 'm still arguing for
maybe a stepping back on the top floor,
but the distance is not going to be
anything --anywhere near Three Island or
the Vistas.
MR.REVUELTA:That's our point of
contention,that besides my position as
what I think has happened to this property
historically in terms of losing rights ,
architecturally,Staff and us have not
been able to see eye to eye that if you --
if you have a structure that you're
pushing back on the south side three times
as much as it is now,and almost twice as
much as it is now,then there's absolutely
no need to make this building any lower.
That we feel that architecturally it's the
right thing to do,and I think
urbanistically what we are creating here
is substantially better than what is there
now and what is there on other properties
on the causeway.That actually the feel
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that you're going to have as you're
driving west on the causeway on Island
Avenue is a feeling of park-like.And to
actually take one floor out of this
building,I am sorry,I don't want to
insult anybody,but I see absolutely no
architectural purpose for it.
I think when you look at this
property,and this project,when it's
built,and you look at the style of
architecture,or,in my opinion,in some
buildings a lack of style of architecture
that exists on the island,this building
would be a plus.I cannot believe that
this building 50 years from now or five
years from now is going to be a minus or a
detriment to the architectural quality of
the island.I 'm in a different galaxy
here with Clotilde,and I guess on the --
on the upper floor with Staff.I just
don't see it.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:What the --how
far does the Grand Venetian setback from
the sidewalk on the south side?
MR.REVUELTA:The Grand Venetian .
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BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Because I want
to compare --I want to compare.
MR.REVUELTA:We have aerial
photograph --I think you have an aerial
photograph and we have an aerial
photograph that we can take a look at,and
probably approximate it using a car or a
parking space,but --
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:I think it may
be --
MR.KASDIN:It says it here.It's
on our comparative chart.A setback is --
the side is 40.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:That's not
right.If it's --
MR.KASDIN:The rear is 22.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Well,no,on
Grand Venetian ,I think,70 feet sounds
about right.
MR.KASDIN:Front is 68.I 'm sorry.
Front is 68.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Right.So this
is setting back even further onto the
property than the Grand Venetian .I think
that's very important to realize,you
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know.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:But,Alex,what
effect does that have on your perspective,
on the perception of the broad siding?I
mean,clearly the setback is a mitigation
that they're agreeing to,but that will do
absolutely nothing to alleviate the --I
understand that the gap has grown after
months of haggling,but the broad siding
effect is not in any way alleviated,
either from Purdy Avenue,nor from driving
along.The garden effect is just going to
be,you know,window dressing on the fact
that you have basically a --the shiny
shield that's less shiny.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Are you talking
about the main building,Clotilde?The
broad side effect --I mean,we're going
to have to --as a Board,we're going to
have to address the fact that this is a
broad side building,and the only thing we
can do on this Board,as regard to design,
is try to mitigate the broad sidedness,
for lack of a better word,as best as
possible.We've been at it for over a
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year.It's not going to go away,
Clotilde.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:It's a very long
building,but,remember,the building and
the island both curve.Again,you know,
I 'm so --the five floors,in the small
building,I 'm still having an issue with
that.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Thomas,it could
go away to a degree where they could
negotiate on the uni-sizes,which they
have refused to do consistently.
MR.REVUELTA:Not only that,but we
are hiding all of the parking of this
building.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:We understand.We
understand the nature of the main building
and the challenge --
MR.REVUELTA:And if this building
would have been conceptually redesigned --
AUDIENCE:How do you hide parking?
MR.REVUELTA:Do I answer questions
from the neighbors?
MR.KASDIN:No,speak directly to --
MR.REVUELTA:No,I knew the answer
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to the question,but --excuse me for my
lack of patience.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:No problem.Take a
deep breath.
MR.REVUELTA:Yes,yes.
If this building would have designed
as a campus building,you would have had
parking all over the place.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Right.
MR.REVUELTA:And,again,I continue
to be in a different galaxy when it comes
to the fact that we are basically hiding
all of the parking within the inside of
the building,and trying now,to the
greatest extent that we --our ability and
our talent can,to how to break up this
massing that is appropriate and to the
liking of a few people is contextually and
is well designed.And hopefully I don't
have to put in my will to demolish this
building after I die.So I think that
we've done enough to break up the mass of
that building.I disagree that it's going
to be a broad sided building.We're
curving the building on the water side.
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We're doing a lot of stuff on the Island
Avenue,Venetian Causeway site.And I
think the east building,by the nature
that it's slanted when you're driving west
on the Venetian Causeway,what you're
seeing is the narrowest portion of the
building kind of coming at you or fading
away from you.You are not seeing a broad
side.
Keep in mind --and,again,this is
another frustration that I have as an
architect,that you do not see life --
you're not standing in the same place for
three hours looking at something.You're
driving or you're walking,and it's a few
seconds.And I 'm convinced that the
perception that you have for the few
minutes or few seconds,whether you're
walking or driving,of this property and
these buildings,is not going to be of a
massive stump,but that's the way I think.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:There's people
who are going to spend more than 40
seconds in the park across the bay.
There's that little park where there's
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children playing.I personally am going
to spend an hour and 20 minutes at La
Folie.
MR.REVUELTA:They would,but if I
was at the park,I 'll be looking at the
water,not at the building.The building
would be to my back.And,you know what,
I would spend two hours on the bay,but I
doubt it that I would spend two hours on
the bay with my back facing north and my
face facing south looking at this
building,but,you know,that's me.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:It's not just --
it's not just traffic going through there,
Mr.Revuelta.This is a building that
will be visible from the mainland.This
is a building that will be visible from
a cross the bay,from La Folie and the
park.I understand neighbors turned out
today,and it is a very common complaint
that,you know,you're ruining our views,
you're ruining our views.That's never
really the most pertinent argument for me.
The argument is --
MR.REVUELTA:The most pertinent
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argument for the neighbors is that they're
concerned about --
THE AUDIENCE:Don't say the
neighbors.
MR.REVUELTA:No,I 'm going to say
what I 've heard at the meetings.Please.
MR.HELD:Hold on for a second.
Please do not speak out from the audience.
We are trying to have a civil conversation
here.There's now a discussion going on
between the Board and the architect.
There was public comment previously,and
everybody who wanted to had a chance to
speak.
MR.REVUELTA:We have heard many
comments about the architecture,but the
comment that has been consistent,a
concern of the neighbors,is traffic and
storm sewer.Those have been the two more
--and then,of course,you have the
neighbors that saying not in my back yard,
which is a comment that I heard in one of
the meetings.I don't want any
construction in my back yard.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:That's what I m
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saying,Mr.Revuelta.It's a much larger
consideration,which is why I keep
bringing up 5 th and Alton,because it is a
very --a very strategic site,which is
important to many --from many
perspectives,and not simply theirs.
MR.REVUELTA:I believe that,but I
think --
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:We're not just
zipping by in our bicycles.Were having a
second glass of Beaujolais over in the
French place,you know,for a couple of
hours.So,you know,we're going to be
looking at you.
MR.REVUELTA:I understand that,but
I think the park-like setting that is
being created on this property,the fact
that we're setting back what we're setting
back from the property lines,and the
amenities that are being created and the
fact that I happen to think,and I hope
four of you agree,that the style of
architecture of this building is halfway
decent and halfway sensible,I think that
will make for a nice bottle of Beaujolais,
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not just a glass.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:I 'm sorry,you're
a charming gentleman,but I would say that
the halfway thing is exactly how we got
into 5 th and Alton.And I think that when
you have a very expensive --not very
expensive,a very prominent,thank you,
site,we --that that halfway decent
thing thing --and I know you were being
self-effacing.
MR.REVUELTA:I understand that,but
I can be chastised for Regatta too,but
for me now to bear the burden of the
design of 5 th and Alton,it's probably
more than my mind can bear today.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:No,no,it's just
--it's just --it's just that --it's the
--it's just the human temptation of any
Board,which is to say,okay,you know,
okay,well,it's better,it's better.And
I 'm just saying that's what you get.
MS.SUSSKIND:We don't live in a
halfway neighborhood.
MR.HELD:Excuse me.The public
hearing has been closed.
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MS.SUSSKIND:Thank you.
MR.HELD:No one else should
approach the podium unless requested by
the Board.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:I 'll make it
official as Chairman.We've ended public
comment.Thank you.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Yeah.I just
like to add a few comments here.You
know,I 'm a bit torn by the comments that
have been made by my colleagues,and I do
agree that,you know,there's always room
for better improvement.The massing on
the second,the larger building is a bit
much.
I 'm torn by the requirement of
reducing that one story on the eastern
building.I 'm not sure whether that would
add or not.I know that,as a neighbor,I
would prefer the lower height.There's no
question about it.
I wanted to ask Mr.Revuelta how many
units would you lose if you reduced that
fifth story on the east building?
MR.REVUELTA:It's six units that
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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you lose --eight,I 'm sorry.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Eight,eight
units.
On some of the amenities that you
proffered,the bay walk,which is great,
the park at the entrance is great,the
view corridor in the middle of the two
buildings is great.I really --I 'm not
sure how I 'm going to vote.I think since
I haven't been here for the whole history
of the project,I believe there's been a
lot of improvement.I would agree with --
with the glass treatment as far as having
two different colors.I wanted to hear
from the Staff as to why there's been a
change between green and blue,or all blue
or all green,if you could comment on
that,please.
MR.CARY:Yes.Originally the
building was all one single design,
connected by a bridge,using the same
color glass throughout,basically the same
architectural design,both components.
Then we requested that the building be
broken into two distinctive buildings of
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two different design heights.So it
wasn't a continuous,for lack of a better
term,monotonous design all the way along
the waterfront,the entire length of the
project.
We also explored the idea of,if
we're going to change the style of the
architecture between the two buildings,
perhaps we should explore changing the
color of the glass that's used.
So we looked at the first rendering,
which is basically the same design that
you're looking at right now,but with one
building being with green glass,and the
other being with blue glass and we did not
think it worked well at all.
So we felt the change of design was
more than adequate to address our
concerns,rather than having a change in
color of glass at the same time.So we
concluded that the more --that the less
aggressive glass color,being the greenish
color,was the better color to go with for
both buildings.That it was the quieter
we felt.
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MR.REVUELTA:Lillian,keep in mind
that the additional story on the east
building was not an issue,that,to my
recollection,was brought out by the
neighbors,but the neighbors were adamant
about taking the bridge out.And I think
it was Staff who --who has spearheaded
that argument.But what I 've heard
consistently from the neighbors is that
they're concerned about traffic,the
employees of the construction,where are
they going to park,and then the storm
sewer situation,which apparently is very
bad in there.And then the bridge,big
issue with the bridge,which I personally
have to take fault for that,'cause I felt
that it was a nice feature,and then I
gave up on it.
We've actually given up on everything
that we felt architecturally was
appropriate.We've given up on it.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Right.And on
the flooding,I understand.I go by
there,and there are problems.And Mr.
Kasdin has brought up the issue of the
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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pump,infrastructure job that seems to be
not working,or hopes to be in effect.
When --if you were to be approved for
this project,when would you actually
start construction?What's the schedule
on that?
MR.REVUELTA:If I 'm still the
architect,hopefully,hopefully right
away,but it's going to take some time to
develop construction documents.It's
going to take some time to get pricing.
So I can tell you it will not be right
away.It will take a while.
And like (inaudible)mentioned,the
new --the new disposal of rain water on
this new project is going to be a new
system,and it's going to be a system that
has to work better than what the property
has now,plus the fact of whatever the
city or the county is doing on the
causeway to improve drainage,all that I
think is going to go a long way to solving
the water problem,the flooding.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:And on the
transportation concurrency,which the
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Staff is saying that it has not been met,
what would be the actual process of
remedying that?I know --I just want to
hear the answers on that,yeah.
MR.KASDIN:Well,on that,on that
we pay a concurrency fee,and that's how
it is met.
MR.CARY:Lily,basically,what
Staff and I think the Board has been
trying to do over the past several months
this project has been before us,we
recognize that zoning allows a large
development on this site.Zoning also
allows for the existing buildings to be
demolished.They're not historic
structures.The Board has no authority in
saying you can't demolish those buildings.
So we've looked at a variety of
approaches,as to how we can make a larger
development fit comfortably onto the
island,especially considering the north
side of the island has the smaller scale
than buildings on the south side of the
island,200 versus a 50 foot height limit.
So we've been trying to ease as many
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aspects of the building,where it's
quality design,creating one building from
another,while still being as quiet and as
calm as possible.So the impact of larger
development has a minimal adverse effect
on both the adjacent neighbors and the
character of the historic Venetian
Causeway,which is terribly important,as
well as designated as an American scenic
highway,as well as it's on the national
register of historic places,and it's
locally designated in both Miami and in
Miami Beach and the respective sides of
the city limits.So that's basically what
we're trying to do,is to really calm the
project down,to make it slip comfortably
and as smoothly into the neighborhood as
we can,acknowledging that zoning allows
for a larger building there.
MR.REVUELTA:I like to also
mention,William,we conceivably could
have made the east building a slightly
longer building and a lower building,but
that would have been at the expense of
eliminating the park-like setting on the
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east side.So we've made a choice,which
we were hoping to be able to be on the
same page with Staff,that it's better to
compress the east building and its
footprint and make it at five stories than
to lengthen it and take away from the
park-like feeling on the east side,so
there is that option.But --and although
I don't agree with it,you could make the
east building a little longer and a little
lower,but I do not agree.But whether I
agree with it or not probably doesn't
matter today.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Does that not
relate specifically to what Mr.Mooney
explained to us two meetings ago,that you
would lose a few parking spaces.And if
you were to agree to expand the surface --
a couple of studios into some one bedrooms
that you would actually be able to shave
off some envelope here.
MR.CARY:Clotilde,the size of the
units have fewer units,fewer parking
spaces required.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Right,because
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you would --okay.And that's where your
developer has refused to budge,so that's
why we are stuck here.
MR.KASDIN:Mr.Chair,just to
briefly respond.I mean,I don't want
this to become a protracted debate,but it
is totally appropriate to offer the rental
--the rental units that they are
offering.In fact,it is a well-known
statistic that the City of Miami Beach has
the greatest disparity of any major city
in the United States between rich and
poor,and that's because we don't have
housing that is available and affordable
for the middle class,working class
individuals.This is a very appropriate,
a most appropriate kind of housing to be
provided in the City of Miami Beach,and I
think it's consistent with good social
policy.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:The one bedroom
could be considered aspirational for the
struggling masses that you're eloquently
defending today.
MS.SUSSKIND:Can you say what
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concurrencies are,please,and how they
work so that we understand the term that
you're using?
DIRECTOR MOONEY:Just the audience's
reference,concurrency refers to a state
mandated law that requires that new
development be concurrent with adopted
levels of service that have been
established under the city's comprehensive
plan with regard to things such as sewer,
water,parks and recreation,school,and
traffic and roadway.And whenever you
have a development that is going to
increase the capacity of a particular
project and result in more vehicles and
more vehicular trips,a concurrency
analysis needs to be conducted.And if it
is determined that the number of vehicular
trips will increase because of this
development,then that increase would need
to be mitigated in some manner.And more
often than not,it's usually mitigated
through the payment of a concurrency
impact fee.
MS.SUSSKIND:And how does --
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MR.HELD:This is not --ma'am,this
is not a dialogue.
DIRECTOR MOONEY:The public hearing
is closed.I did that just for the
public's reference,as a courtesy.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Okay.I think
where we are right now is,there's a
couple of things that I still want to
discuss the status.
Currently,I believe we're still at a
--at a --for lack of a term,a stalemate
with regards to the height of the
southeast building.
The other issue is,I 'm trying to
speak to president of the neighborhood
association,and how they outline the
concerns.
One of the concerns was the storm
drainage of the area,and Mr.Kasdin spoke
there's going to be some drainage issues
as a result of the construction.
My question is to Staff and city is,
is there a CIP project regarding that's
going to be addressing the storm water and
the drainage in that park planned?Was,
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and it was done?
MR.KASDIN:Mr.Deluca,to clarify,
what I said is,the on-site drainage will
be improved,will be improved.
MR.HELD:On-site.I understand.I
understand.Okay,and it's been done.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:In fact,during
high tide and a full moon,that's when the
eastern side of the island has the worst
flooding.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:All right.And
then there is the further development of
the main building,according to Staff
comments,which I believe is increasing --
increasing the stepping.Is that it,
William?
MR.CARY:Yes,it's on the bay side.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:On the bay side.
MR.CARY:Further development of the
south wall of the north building to
maximize to the greatest extent possible
the size of the view corridor between the
two buildings.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Okay.All right.
And I believe,Luis and Mr.Kasdin,right
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now the issue is that in regards to all
the recommendations,with the exception of
the lowering five to four --
MR.REVUELTA:We are accepting
everything,except that.And we're going
to try beyond belief to try not come back
to you.If we don't agree,we're going to
try --w e 're going to try to agree on
everything that they say,so we don't have
to come back to this Board.So the
intention is to try to work out all the
issues that they're concerned with in
terms of detailing,et cetera,et cetera.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Well,I guess what
I want to do is --I 'm going to wait for
Gabrielle to come back,but the
questioning to the Board is,whether the
Board is comfortable that these
recommendations be worked out with Staff,
and can the Board come up with a motion
that would allow that to happen or is the
Board at the point where they don't want
that now?
MR.CARY:That's the critical issue.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:That's the critical
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issue.
MR.CARY:Right.Then the
application has expired.New application
will need to be --
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:And here's the
point I want to make.However motion is
made,if it's going to be the opposite,if
there's a board member that's going to
say,no,we don't --we're not going --
I 'm not going to recommend this,then
there's going to have to be guidance given
to the applicant on what they want to see.
So now that that's out --
DIRECTOR MOONEY:Mr.Chairman,also
just as a point of information,since this
is the short board,at least four members
would need to vote in favor of any
approval.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Yes.
DIRECTOR MOONEY:And if the Board
was not to approve it,for whatever
reason,you would also need to make sure
that any denials without prejudice,so
that they could resubmit sooner than six
months,if it comes to that.
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BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Just a quick
question for the city.
Does the city require a construction
staging plan to bring construction workers
on and off-site?Do you do anything like
that?
DIRECTOR MOONEY:That's usually
handled by the Building Department.
MR.KASDIN:Mr.Chair,also one
other thing.If there is denial,under
state law,there must be a specific --a
finding as the basis of the denial.
MR.HELD:What's your expectation to
that,Mr.Kasdin?
MR.KASDIN:What?
MR.HELD:What's your reference to
state law requiring findings?It's my
understanding that findings are not
required.
MR.KASDIN:It's my understanding
they are,Mr.Held.
MR.HELD:Do you have a citation?
MR.KASDIN:Not in my pocket,but
I 'll get it for you.
MR.HELD:Okay.Hopefully you won't
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need it.
MR.KASDIN:Okay.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Question,Mr.
Chair.
If the application was to be denied,
and there is a submittal,another possible
re-submittal,but it would start the whole
process over with a new permit --I mean,
a new application,excuse me.
MR.CARY:New application,new
application fees.The whole process
begins again.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:And it does
expire --
MR.CARY:I mean,they can resume
from where they are right now in terms of
design.
MR.REVUELTA:New architect,
everything would be new.
MR.KASDIN:We're just requesting
approval with the fifth floor.We've gone
to extraordinary lengths to accommodate
the wishes of the Board,the Staff,and
the architect and the neighbors.And Mr.
Revuelta has --has stated,and has worked
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very closely with Staff,that he will work
with him on the remaining issues.I think
we respectfully request at this time to at
this point approve it and let's move on.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Well,there's
either going to be a motion or not.
MR.HELD:So is there a motion?
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Is there a motion
from the Board?
MR.CARY:You can always take a
straw poll vote,if you want to.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:I think we'll have
to take a straw poll vote.I think that's
what we're going to have to end up doing,
if there's no motion on board.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:I 'll make a
motion to approve the project subject to
all staff conditions.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Will you take
a friendly amendment of having the
architect explore a machine room-less
traction elevator in exchange for one of
the --one or more of the hydraulic
elevators in the small building?
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:That's
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acceptable.
MR.HELD:I thought you were going
to do that,or the request was that it not
be a condition.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:It's not a
condition,that they explore.It's not a
requirement,they explore.
DIRECTOR MOONEY:The applicant has
basically agreed to explore that verbally.
MR.CARY:Well,you don't mind it
being put on as a condition,to explore
it,do you?
MR.KASDIN:No.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:And where are
we with the blue and the green?
MR.CARY:Green,just one color of
glass.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Why?Because
you like it better and you don't like the
blue and the green diamond?
MR.CARY:Well,I don't know.I
guess --I don't like to seem prejudiced ,
but the Portofino Tower with the shocking
blue glass has always been simply the most
disturbing building in the city to me ever
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since it was constructed.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:So this is a
personal thing for you,William?
MR.CARY:It's a design.
MR.HELD:He is a design
professional.
MR.CARY:It's a design thing.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Yeah,but the
problem with the building is the orange of
the building,not the blue of the glass.
MR.CARY:Also,I think that the
blue --that the green glass,the grey
green glass is much more environmentally
compatible,friendly,softer.It doesn't
jump out at you.I think it's quieter for
the neighborhood.We already have
wonderful blue skies,and we have a blue
bay.We don't need to have blue glass in
the buildings as well.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Why not?It's
so pretty.
MR.CARY:Well,I mean,I would only
say that whether the Board opts for blue
glass or green glass,that the glass color
be consistent for both buildings and not
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be different.I mean,I love cats,one
blue eye and one brown eye,but I don't
think that it's the best way to go.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:I have something
that I 'd like to request also.
MR.HELD:Well,Mr.Chair,there's
been the motion.Is there a second?
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Yeah.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:No,no,but I 'm
going to ask you to consider something.I
mean,clearly I 'm not going to vote for
approval of this today.But if this does
get approved,I am --I would suggest that
you add a condition that if for any reason
the property changes hands before it is
built,that it not --that it come for a
new design review approval.In other
words,if they sell the property --
MR.HELD:No,this is not something
that we have ever required,to my
knowledge.Do you have a --okay,as a
condition --
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Uh-hum.
MR.HELD:--this Board is
exercising police powers.So is there
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some justification that you can put forth
for it,because --
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Oh,well,simply
because I think that it is basically a
long slog compromise that we're arriving
at today.
MR.HELD:Right.But all of the
conditions are binding on the owner and
subsequent owners.So if it's acceptable
for this owner,it should be acceptable
for subsequent owner.
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:Well,that's what
I 'm saying,they were to sell it,sell it
with approved plans.But I --given that
there hasn't been that much enthusiasm for
it,it might be on occasion to explore
what another developer would do with the
site.So I 'm just saying,is that totally
novel condition that would be added,
that's never been done?
MR.HELD:Yeah.Planning Board
would require that a subsequent
owner/operator come before the Board to
indicate understanding and willingness to
comply with conditions.And sometimes
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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there's a modification provision,but this
is a structural project and not an
operating project.So for structural
projects,where something is being
constructed,it's typically not a
requirement.
MR.KASDIN:Right.
MR.HELD:Either it satisfies the
requirements in the code for approval,and
compliance with state law under police
power,regulations or it does not.
MR.KASDIN:And the order is
recorded,and it goes with the land.So
if there's any modification whatsoever,
then any --first of all,Mr.Munoz has
owned this property for well over 20
years.And he has owned a number of
properties on Miami Beach for well over 20
years.And he's building this as a rental
building,not to take the money and run,
but as a long-term investment.That is
his --the singular characteristic of all
of his investments in this area for over
30 years.But it is recorded order that
goes with the land.And if someone --if
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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for some reason it's sold some day,and
someone wants to come in and do something
different,they have to come back to this
Board.
MR.REVUELTA:Can I make a question
from Alex?Alex,you mentioned at the
beginning of the meeting that if we were
to reduce the size of the fifth floor,
would it make sense to you and to Lily if
we reduced the size of the fifth floor and
to cut a couple of units and make maybe
larger units with bigger terraces,would
that make a difference with your thinking?
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:That's what I
was getting at.I just think it may be
helpful to have four floors by the
causeway and step it back,whether they be
terraces,something,not a building.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Yeah,and if I
may.
MR.REVUELTA:Well,let me rephrase
what I said and what I think I heard you
to say at the beginning of the meeting.
If we took out some of the size of the
fifth floor and made it smaller by taking
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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out some units,is that something that
makes sense to you or not?
MR.CARY:Luis,I think that's going
to have a significant design impact that
is probably something that the Board
should look at.I think the Board either
needs to make a decision for this --at
this point on whether to require a fifth
floor or not.You can always come back at
a later date.If it's approved with four
floors,you come back with an amendment
for a later date requesting the Board to
consider a partial fifth floor or a
reduced size fifth floor.
MR.REVUELTA:Well,I 'm bringing it
up because Alex brought it up.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Now,my motion
stands subject to Staff conditions.
MR.CARY:I have a concern.I have
a concern about Staff trying to figure out
whether,you know,part of the fifth floor
is something the Board would approve.
Right.So I would either see it one way
or the other.Either all five floors or
all four floors.You can always come back
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and seek an amendment to the application,
you know,after approval,if you wish to.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Just to clarify,
my motion is to approve the project
subject to Staff --you know,Staff
recommendations.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:And I second
it with the friendly amendments.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Your amendment.
DIRECTOR MOONEY:The amendment was
the exploring an elevator without a
machine room.And then the other one was
that both buildings shall utilize the
green glass.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I didn't say
that.
DIRECTOR MOONEY:Well,what's the
conclusion on the glass?
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:My point of
view,and I think I agree,is to have a
different color,because it does break out
the two different buildings,but it would
be interesting to hear from Mr.Revuelta
on this point.If you would be so kind,
just again to address that,how you feel
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MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600
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about that.
MR.REVUELTA:I feel that there
should be one glass,architecturally just
like I felt there should be one design,
but historically my opinion has not done
well.But I do feel that it should be one
glass,not two different glasses.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:Thank you.So
it's really up to you then.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:No,it's up to
everybody.
BOARD MEMBER MEDINA:No,I withdraw
my recommendation for two different glass
treatments.
DIRECTOR MOONEY:So does the motion
include one glass treatment?
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:I think that the
motion should be one glass treatment,to
be determined by Staff and the applicant.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Who second?Did
someone second?
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:I second.
BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Oh,okay.
Gabrielle second.
MR.CARY:There is a second.
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BOARD MEMBER DAVID:Gabrielle.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:Yeah.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:There is a second.
Okay.All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY:Aye.
CHAIRMAN DELUCA:Opposed?
BOARD MEMBER LUCE:You want to
guess?Sorry.No.
BOARD MEMBER REDFERN:So build it
fast.
(Thereupon,at 11:53 a .m .,the
hearing was concluded).
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
I ,Lorena Ramos,National Registered
Professional Reporter and Florida Professional
Reporter,do hereby certify that I was
authorized to and did report the foregoing
proceedings before the City of Miami Beach
Design Review Board,Item Belle Isle
Apartments,and that the transcript,pages 1
through 108,is a true and correct record of
the VIDEOTAPED proceeding,to the best of my
ability.
DATED this 8 th day of August 2010 at
Miami-Dade County,Florida.
_____________________________
LORENA RAMOS,RPR &FPR
COURT REPORTER
**TRANSCRIBED FROM VIDEOTAPED PROCEEDING**