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DRB appeal file 2 of 2 070610BELLEMINI1 of 28 sheets Page 1 to 4 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600 1 CITY OF MIAMI BEACH DESIGN REVIEW BOARD CITY HALL,COMMISSION CHAMBERS 1700 Convention Center Drive July 6,2010 10:01 a .m.-11:53 a.m. ITEM DRB FILE NO.22347 31 Venetian Way Belle Isle Apartments BOARD MEMBERS (Present) Thomas Deluca,Chairman Alex David Gabrielle Redfern Clotilde Luce Lillian Medina CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE Gary Held Assistant City Attorney On Behalf of Belle Isle Apartments Neisen Kasdin,Esq. Andrew W .Frey,Esq. 2 DIRECTOR MOONEY: O kay. T he next 1 item is D RB File N o. 2 2347, 3 1 Venetia n 2 Way, B elle Isle A partm ents. A nd th e 3 applicant is re questin g design review 4 approval fo r the constru ctio n of a n ew 5 fiv e-story multi-fa mily b uild in g, w hich 6 will re place four existin g th ree-story 7 build in gs th at w ill b e dem olished. 8 As th e Board will n ote in th e Staff 9 report, S ta ff b elie ves th e applic ant h as 10 successfully addressed most o f the 11 concerns o f S taff. T here's a fe w issues 12 th at still n eed to b e resolv ed, b ut S taff 13 believes th ey can be addressed 14 adm in istrativ ely. A nd we w ould recommend 15 th at th e applicatio n be approved subject 16 to the conditio ns enum erated in th e Staff 17 report.18 BOARD MEMBER SABA: M r. C hairm an, I 19 have to ste p down fo r th is ite m. 20 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: W henever you're 21 ready.22 MR. K ASDIN: Y es, M r. D eluca. N eisen 23 Kasdin and Andrew F rey, representin g 24 Euroam erican Group, th e owner of th e 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 3 property a nd th e developer. W ith us to day 1 as well is A ngel T orres, the owner's 2 re presentativ e; Luis Revuelta and Barbara 3 Pederzoli, th e architects. 4 And I'd lik e to ta ke ju st a few 5 minutes reviewin g th e history and the 6 context of th is a pplicatio n, and th en have 7 Mr. R evuelta fo cus specific ally o n any 8 re main in g design issues. 9 The first th in g I w ould like to b rin g 10 to th e Board's atte ntio n is that this 11 matter h as now b een pending before th e 12 Board fo r a y ear a nd a half. A nd in th at 13 perio d of tim e, it h as gone th rough a 14 dram atic revision and response to 15 observatio ns and requests from th e Board, 16 th e Staff a nd the neighbors as w ell. 17 To briefly review th e extent o f the 18 changes on th is d esig n in the year and a 19 half, among th em are the fo llo wing. A s 20 you might som e -- and I k now w e have a new 21 Board member h ere as well, w ho may not b e 22 fa milia r w ith th e history. In itially , th e 23 tw o build in gs that y ou see on th e screen 24 th ere were connected by a sky brid ge. T he 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 4 sky brid ge was a tw o-story sky brid ge, 1 which was -- had a corridor as well in th e 2 middle of th e sky brid ge. T he S taff a nd 3 certain B oard Members objected to th e sky 4 brid ge. S o th e sky brid ge was reduced 5 from tw o storie s to one sto ry. A nd th en 6 ultimately th e sky brid ge was com pletely 7 elim in ated, so that th e tw o build in gs are 8 unconnected and stand -- stand alone. 9 Among th e other changes, th e dram atic 10 changes that h ave taken place, th e 11 southeast b uild in g, w hich is th e sm all 12 build in g, w hich is clo ser to th e causew ay, 13 was significa ntly p ulle d back from th e 14 causew ay to create a la rge park and plaza 15 between the causeway and th e build in g 16 itself th at also serves as a n entrance fo r 17 th e bay walk th at w ill -- public b ay walk 18 th at w ill w ra p th e property . 19 The opening between the tw o build in gs 20 in creased tw ice in size to over 6 0 fe et in 21 width. A nd anything th at w as above grade 22 le vel w as reduced, so th at the view 23 corridor is com pletely open from th e 24 ground to th e sky, wider th an -- m uch 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 5 to 8 of 109 2 of 28 sheets 5 wider than originally even proposed for 1 those on the Venetian Island and the 2 Venetian -- on Belle Island and the 3 Venetian Causeway. 4 And then there was a great deal of 5 work with the facade and articulation of 6 the two buildings, which I will have 7 Mr. Revuelta review and discuss with you, 8 but the main thrust of those changes was 9 to give the two buildings separate 10 identities. 11 Now, I would say parenthetically, you 12 look at a building, such as Rockefeller 13 Center in New York, they all have one 14 design and one look, although they vary in 15 size, and I think that's the strength of 16 that design. But it is a matter of -- 17 it's a matter of taste, whether you prefer 18 a unified look or individualized look. 19 And Mr. Revuelta has followed the 20 direction of the majority of the Board and 21 the Staff in creating a very different 22 appearance for the two buildings, as you 23 see -- as you see there. 24 I would like to properly as well set 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 6 the context of this application. First, 1 as you know, the buildings that we're 2 seeking approval of are within the 3 allowable zoning for that site, the RM-1 4 zoning, both in terms of height, in terms 5 of FAR, in terms of setback. So there is 6 no exception from the zoning. 7 The zoning, which historically, until 8 1993, actually was RM-2, and allowed the 9 same buildings as you see on the north 10 side of Belle Isle.11 Something that is very important to 12 bring everyone's attention -- south side, 13 pardon me. Something that's very 14 important to keep everything in proper 15 context is the issue of height and the 16 relation of the heights of the buildings 17 to the Venetian Causeway. 18 There are four buildings on Belle 19 Isle, which have frontage on the Venetian 20 Causeway. All of those four buildings are 21 significantly larger, and in at least two 22 instances, significantly closer to the 23 Venetian Causeway than the proposed small 24 building on the southeast end of this 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 7 property. And I refer to on the other 1 side of Belle Isle, on the north side, the 2 Vistas building, which is six stories 3 tall. This is only proposed to be five. 4 And is much, much closer to the causeway. 5 This was approved under the RM-1 zoning, 6 not under the preceding RM-2 zoning. So 7 that's what the zoning allows. 8 Go across the street from the Vistas, 9 and you have Three Island Avenue, which is 10 also as closer, or closer to the causeway, 11 at 125 feet tall, with a two-story, I 12 believe, parking podium on the causeway.13 Now, go to the other building that 14 faces -- that fronts on the Venetian 15 Causeway, and that is the Grand Venetian, 16 which is 25 floors and 271 feet in height. 17 So an honest evaluation of the 18 context of the southeast building in 19 relation to the causeway shows that it is 20 significantly shorter than any other 21 building that fronts on the causeway, and 22 it is setback from the causeway as well. 23 And so, therefore, it is a very modest 24 statement, modest building, very much in 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 8 keeping, in fact, smaller in scale, than 1 the other buildings. 2 Now, I would also point -- and this 3 has been handed out to you. On the first 4 page of this document, which is handed out 5 to you, you see height comparison of other 6 buildings on Belle Isle. And on the south 7 side, of course, I think you all well 8 know, the buildings are very tall, ranging 9 from eight stories in height to well over 10 20 stories in height. That is the 11 predominant -- not only the predominant, 12 but the exclusive characteristic of 13 buildings on the south side of Belle Isle.14 On the north side of Belle Isle, 15 there is a mix. There are still some 16 single-family homes left among that 17 terrace, but there is the Vista 18 condominium. There is the Standard Hotel. 19 There are the Dilido Apartments, which are 20 five stories tall. And so -- and, of 21 course, the existing apartments on our 22 site, which are three stories tall. So 23 there's already a character, such that the 24 scale is totally appropriate. But, again, 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 3 of 28 sheets Page 9 to 12 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 9 as I was pre -- as I would point to your 1 attention, please look at the buildings 2 that front on the Venetian Causeway, and 3 see how much smaller ours is, how much 4 more ours is setback. 5 I think really that's all I would 6 like to say at this point, and then I'd 7 like to turn it over to Luis Revuelta to 8 discuss any remaining design issues. 9 At one point, I would request, is 10 that this matter be voted on today, either 11 up or down, because after this meeting, 12 the application will expire, so we'd like 13 a vote. 14 I think that Luis has made a 15 tremendous effort to accommodate the 16 wishes and the desires of the Board 17 Members and the Staff, and he'll go 18 through that with you. And you can also 19 see, at the very end, if you would, the 20 last page of this booklet that I handed 21 out to you, you'll also notice the 22 elevation. And I'll show this as well to 23 the people in the audience -- well, if you 24 can, if the camera can focus on that board 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 10 there with the elevation. Is that 1 possible? Well, if not, people can come 2 up and look and see. This -- no, I just 3 wanted to show, people to be aware of 4 these elevations, and I think this 5 illustrates very clearly how the building 6 has its own style, its own design, with 7 significant open space, greater than any 8 other that fronts on the Venetian 9 Causeway, and it's a very handsome 10 addition to the neighborhood. 11 With that said, I'd ask -- I'd 12 introduce Luis Revuelta, and request your 13 action on this item this morning. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Thank you, Mr. 16 Kasdin. 17 MR. REVUELTA: Good morning, my name 18 is Luis Revuelta, Revuelta Architecture 19 International. And I'll try to make it 20 brief, as much as I can. 21 I'd like to first be grateful to 22 Staff for recommending approval of the 23 project, which, needless to say, it's 24 something that we're very grateful for.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 11 And I'll go briefly through the 1 changes that we made based on the comments 2 that the Board made and the Staff has 3 made. 4 In looking at the comments, we 5 decided that it would be interesting to 6 try to explore a deconstruction approach 7 to the -- originally it was the east 8 building, and then when we met with Staff, 9 Staff liked the execution of the 10 deconstruction approach of blending a 11 rectangular type of architecture, which is 12 more in keeping with the context of the 13 island. And they said that it would 14 probably be better, and for us to explore, 15 which we eventually did and implemented, 16 to implement that philosophy on the west 17 building rather than on the east building, 18 and try to maintain the east building as 19 streamlined, as simple and as low as 20 possible. 21 And one of the arguments they 22 presented, and we agreed on, was that by 23 implementing this mixture of treatment of 24 layers on the facade, of a rectangular 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 12 form, with a curve linear form, it not 1 only created a further interest on the 2 west building, but it decreased the 3 optical illusion of the length of the 4 building. So with that, we went ahead and 5 agreed, and implemented the stair-stepping 6 approach that you see on the -- on both 7 the -- on the south facade.8 Staff then further requested that we 9 should explore turning that around into 10 the east facade of the west building. And 11 also in order to decrease the optical 12 length of that building on the north side, 13 on the bay side, to bring it around. So, 14 essentially, what you have is a bracket on 15 the north, west, east and south side of 16 the west building that brackets a more 17 simple approach and -- of the west 18 building, and it brackets it with that 19 recta-linear volume that you see in the 20 renderings.21 We've been asked to explore other 22 finishes, other than concrete and stucco, 23 and we are definitely more than glad to 24 explore what other materials we can use. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 13 to 16 of 109 4 of 28 sheets 13 We are presenting it to you as block and 1 stucco, because of the fear that if we 2 presented to you aluminum panels, or some 3 kind of frosted glass, much like we 4 proposed on the Monte Carlo, that if that 5 becomes a problem in terms of cost for a 6 rental building, we don't want to mislead 7 anybody, but we are certainly more than 8 happy to explore what other materials 9 would be available to create this 10 contextual approach and deconstruction 11 approach from a contemporary structure to 12 a more -- to a style more contextual with 13 the island. 14 The east building, we basically slid 15 the two sides of the building, or the two 16 parts of the building, sliding against 17 each other. So not only we create kind of 18 a pointed vessel-like edge on the building 19 on both sides, on the east and the west, 20 Staff strongly requested that we explore 21 putting the stairs inwards rather than 22 outwards. We felt that the stairs were 23 giving us an anchor point, and thought it 24 was successful with some Members of the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 14 Board, but, nevertheless, we explored, 1 implemented and submitted that option with 2 the stairs inside. The other one, I 3 think, has been brought into the 4 presentation just in case there were any 5 feelings on the Board one way or another. 6 We are fine with either. We have 7 absolutely no problems whatsoever. 8 Staff requested to eliminate the 9 traction elevators and make them cable 10 machine elevators, so we could have the 11 machine room at the bottom, and we did 12 that. We eliminated one of the stairs 13 going up to the roof, with only one stair 14 now going up to the roof, and it's the 15 west side of the east building. Again, in 16 an effort to maintain that east building 17 as low as possible. 18 So other than some air conditioning 19 units that have to go in there, and will 20 be screened, and we agree with the 21 condition from Staff to screen them, we 22 feel that we've done the best that we can 23 to basically reduce the mass of the east 24 building. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 15 I'd like to continue to remind the 1 Board, and for the benefit of the new 2 member, Ms. Medina, that the existing 3 buildings right now are at 9'7", and 52 4 something feet from the edge, from the 5 east most part of this property. We have 6 placed our building at 30 something feet 7 from the property line. And we -- and 8 it's 100 feet from the east point of this 9 building. So, in essence, what we've done 10 is created a park-like setting on the east 11 most part of this property, which does not 12 exist today. 13 We also have created the bay walk, 14 which is a requirement, and we have no 15 problem with it, and we're agreeing to 16 maintain the boardwalk open from dusk to 17 dawn, which is the rules of the city. 18 I believe -- and the landscaping that 19 you're seeing on the drawings, as it was 20 requested, is the landscaping that 21 basically it's been specified by the 22 landscape architect. I believe that with 23 the amount of landscaping that we're going 24 to provide, and with the distance that are 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 16 being created from Venetian Causeway back 1 to the buildings, in a matter of three, 2 four, five, six years, this landscaping 3 will grow to approximately three stories 4 in height. And as much as I agree, and 5 I'm grateful for all the comments that 6 Staff and the Board has made about the 7 layering and the architectural styling of 8 the building, this property will be 9 actually -- the buildings would not be 10 seen that much because of the landscaping. 11 Now, we took a picture, as it was 12 suggested at one of our neighbors' 13 meetings, from the fourth floor of the 14 building to the south, which I forget the 15 name now. This unit, I think, is Scott 16 Diffenderfer's unit. And as you can see, 17 and this is juxtaposition of what's there 18 now, and what we're proposing. 19 The buildings, the existing 20 buildings, are three or four different 21 buildings in an L-shape form, but 22 essentially create a wall as you look 23 north. The view corridor now, without the 24 bridge, creates a greater view to the bay 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 5 of 28 sheets Page 17 to 20 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 17 from the south. And although this 1 photograph do not show it, I think the 2 view to the bay now is substantially 3 greater. It's going to be twice as much 4 as it is now on the east part of this 5 property. So this was suggested in one of 6 the neighbors' meetings. We thought it 7 was a good idea, and we took the 8 photographs to show that the impact on the 9 buildings to the south is minimal, if none 10 whatsoever. On the contrary, we believe, 11 like Professor Jean-Francois Le Jeune 12 said, I think I have a view to the bay now 13 from my unit because of the view corridor. 14 So with that, I'll open it up for any 15 questions that -- that the Board might 16 have. The only thing -- the only thing 17 that we were not able to implement from 18 everything that was requested from us, 19 from the Board or from Staff, is 20 eliminating the one floor in the east 21 building, but we have tried to make it as 22 small as possible, as lean as possible. 23 And we feel that we have been very 24 respectful to the character of the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 18 Venetian Causeway. 1 So with that, I'm ready for your 2 questions and comments. 3 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: I just wanted to 4 ask a few general questions before we got 5 started. 6 We were just handed another set of 7 plans dated July 6th. What's the 8 difference between this set and what was 9 submitted on the --10 MR. REVUELTA: Barbara. 11 MS. PEDERZOLI: Hi, Barbara Pederzoli 12 from Mr. Revuelta's office. 13 These are just updated -- I mean, 14 some of the drawings, renderings that we 15 didn't have time to finish properly, so we 16 added those renderings there, plus the 17 elevations we added -- we dropped the 18 stairs. So on the west building as well, 19 there was one stair that was still 20 sticking out, so we drop it, and we added 21 some notes just to update the drawings to 22 the latest one. And the swan board, this 23 board that we have here, comparing the 24 massing -- massing of both buildings and 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 19 plan. And the first board that compares 1 the height of the building with the 2 buildings on the island, that was not 3 included in the original set. This is 4 just an addendum to the original set. 5 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Well, that's 6 what I'm getting at. I notice, you know, 7 A007 is new, which is the aerial. 8 MS. PEDERZOLI: Right.9 MR. DAVID: And then A707 is new.10 MS. PEDERZOLI: Correct. The 11 elevations are the same, just updated. 12 MR. CARY: Right, 707, when Staff 13 first looked at the revision to the design 14 of the southeast building, smaller of the 15 two buildings, the stairs and the elevator 16 tower were on the exterior of the 17 building.18 MS. PEDERZOLI: Right.19 MR. CARY: And we specifically 20 requested that they be tucked into the 21 architecture itself, so that it did not 22 become a major architectural element -- a 23 major architectural element, and so that 24 would then compete with the very, you 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 20 know, delicate railing details of the 1 Venetian Causeway or with the scale. We 2 felt that the stair, which is very 3 beautiful and very radiant, you know, in 4 character, really commands very, very 5 strong attention to itself and is making 6 too much of a statement. We felt by 7 tucking the stairs back into the building, 8 and it allows it to be a much more 9 restful, relaxing, residential, quiet 10 residential structure, you know, even 11 given its larger size than the other 12 buildings on the north side of the 13 property. So it's just showing you what 14 the difference is between -- 15 MS. PEDERZOLI: The difference in the 16 renderings, yeah.17 MR. CARY: -- the first design that 18 we looked at, which is on 707, which 19 showed the exterior staircase and elevator 20 tower and then the new version, where we 21 requested they use the hydraulic lift 22 rather than the cable lift and tuck the 23 element inside the building, which would 24 give us far superior -- 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 21 to 24 of 109 6 of 28 sheets 21 MR. DAVID: Now you're confusing me 1 even more, because 707 shows what you 2 don't want? 3 MR. CARY: 707 shows what was 4 originally presented, and we asked them to 5 pull the elevator and the tower -- and the 6 stair tower inside of the building, and to 7 switch from a cable elevator, which has 8 the elevator penthouse that rises above 9 the building and creates an even taller 10 element, to a hydraulic lift, which is 11 contained within the structure completely.12 So when you look at -- when you look 13 at 706, that is the version that we have 14 specifically requested that creates for a 15 much quieter design that slips, like a 16 boat slips through the water, much more 17 smoothly and quietly into the existing 18 residential environment and works better 19 with -- 20 MR. REVUELTA: And 706 and707, I 21 think one has the blue glass and the other 22 one has the green glass, which is 23 something Staff has asked us to explore.24 MR. CARY: Right. We had originally 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 22 considered having different color glass in 1 each of the two buildings. When we looked 2 at it, we realized it was much better to 3 have one color of glass, the green glass, 4 in both buildings.5 MR. REVUELTA: But I like to make 6 clear that the submittal that we made 7 officially was with the stairs inside. 8 MR. CARY: Yes, but, no, I'm saying 9 that the design we looked at first.10 MR. REVUELTA: Yes, this is just for 11 comparison for history and for color of 12 glass, the submittal, as it's officially 13 made and agreed upon, was with the stairs 14 inside. 15 MR. CARY: That's what you're asking 16 approval on, correct. 17 MR. REVUELTA: So -- 18 MR. DAVID: Okay. So -- and what was 19 submitted today, we have two views.20 MR. CARY: 706 is the correct view. 21 That is the official application.22 MR. REVUELTA: You can take it out, 23 scratch it.24 MR. CARY: That was just as a 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 23 reference. 1 MR. REVUELTA: Crumple it up, red X 2 it.3 MR. DAVID: Yeah, we're going to X 4 707. That goes away. Okay. It just 5 wasn't clear in what was submitted. 6 And then the other, you just said 7 something else about height, so I think 8 that's important, 'cause that's not on the 9 new July 6th. 10 MS. PEDERZOLI: One of the stairs on 11 the west building was not at the proper 12 height, so we adjusted that height.13 MR. CARY: Downward.14 MS. PEDERZOLI: Yeah, downward. So 15 that's in the new elevation that you have, 16 but that's something we already agreed on, 17 and it was not in drawings when we 18 submitted. So we just wanted to make it 19 clear that it's going to be done. 20 MR. DAVID: The second comment, the 21 second comment is, have you met with the 22 residents, the neighborhoods, since the 23 time of -- since the June 18th plans? 24 MS. PEDERZOLI: Yes, we have met a 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 24 couple of times with the neighbors. 1 MR. REVUELTA: Yes, we have. 2 MR. DAVID: But after these were 3 completed? 4 MS. PEDERZOLI: Yes.5 MR. DAVID: I just want to make clear 6 that this is what they saw.7 MS. PEDERZOLI: Yes, it is. 8 MR. CARY: They haven't seen all the 9 drawings that were submitted today, but 10 they saw the final drawings that were in 11 the packet.12 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Right, which is 13 basically -- 14 MR. CARY: Correct, yeah. 15 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: I'd like -- I mean, 16 I'd like to get public comment. Is there 17 anyone from the public who would like to 18 make comment? If so, please step up and 19 state your name and address.20 MS. SUSSKIND: May I? Testing 21 testing. Good morning. Thank you for the 22 chance to speak, especially since we're 23 just celebrating the birth of our country. 24 In another country, we might be jailed for 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 7 of 28 sheets Page 25 to 28 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 25 a meeting here. We're not. We're all 1 here. Good morning. If you'll give me a 2 minute.3 MR. HELD: Your name and address, for 4 the record.5 MS. SUSSKIND: Yes, I shall. My name 6 is Willa Sue Susskind. The last letter of 7 my last name is a D as in Daniel. 8 Which has precedence, a judgment from 9 a state court or a city ordinance? One of 10 my neighbors asked me this. She remembers 11 when there was a law case that the 12 judgment of the court said there is a 13 three-story height on the buildings, on 14 the same side of the causeway, as the 31 15 Venetian building. I don't know. I'm not 16 as old as she is. I did seek the advice 17 of several people to find out was there 18 such a court case, and does this apparent 19 contradiction really occur? 20 I was able to find a reference, and I 21 believe Gary Held and a Mr. Richard Lorber 22 have a copy of this status report, which 23 shows that the Venetian Island's 24 Improvement Association, Inc. versus the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 26 City of Miami Beach, and I have an 1 activities number. I don't know if this 2 is one of several documents and several 3 questions about this property, or if this 4 is only an isolated case, because I'm not 5 a lawyer and I don't know how to get that 6 information. 7 What I'd like to find out is, is 8 there, in fact, this case? It seems it's 9 been going on for four years. A lady 10 named Manette Benson (phonetic), and a 11 lady named B. Dershlag (phonetic) were 12 working on it, and the status report 13 refers to the year 1990. 14 I have a call of action to you, 15 please. I believe you're the presiding 16 officer today. You're the presiding 17 officer, good morning, Mr. Deluca. My 18 call to action is this: To please ask 19 for, and make available to us, records 20 through the city's attorney's office, so 21 that we can all sit down together and see 22 if the city ordinance is correct. It is a 23 five-story building. If a judgment in a 24 state court is correct, the height for 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 27 this building is three stories. 1 I'd like to address this, and say to 2 Mr. Revuelta and his company, how much I 3 appreciate the work that he has put into 4 this project. It is devastating to come 5 with an original project, and then after 6 it's been tweaked, to watch your project 7 change and yet I think he has dealt fairly 8 with everyone in his attention and his 9 desire to make the building compatible. 10 A quote that I have for you is to 11 build your dream castles in the air, 12 that's where they belong, and under them 13 build a firm foundation. I am asking you 14 to establish what is the firm foundation 15 for this building across the way. 16 Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Thank you very 18 much. 19 MR. HELD: Mr. Chair.20 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Please.21 HELD: So because a reference was 22 made to possible judicial action in this 23 case, I've had a couple of conversations 24 with Ms. Susskind, also with the City 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 28 Clerk's Office, with our -- with my office 1 manager to try and obtain any records that 2 might be in storage. I've also spoken 3 with former Commissioner Nancy Leibman. 4 To our knowledge, there is no judgment 5 that restricts the height on the south 6 side of Belle Isle -- sorry, north side. 7 Sorry. There is a reference in the City 8 Clerk's file of two court cases that were 9 filed by the Venetian Island's Improvement 10 Association, dating back to 1990. Both 11 were voluntarily dismissed. That's not a 12 judgment that has any effect on these 13 proceedings. 14 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Thank you. 15 MS. WERBLOW: May I speak now? 16 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Please, ma'am, 17 state your name and address. 18 MS. WERBLOW: My name is Marcella 19 Werblow, and my address is 16 Island 20 Avenue, and I've lived there for 45 years. 21 I've seen a lot of changes. I'm probably 22 the only native born Miamian you've ever 23 seen my age. I know I'm the oldest one in 24 Dade County, so my memories go back quite 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 29 to 32 of 109 8 of 28 sheets 29 a way. 1 There was reference made to the fact 2 in south end of Belle Isle is full of 3 high-rises. I don't say that it isn't. 4 When I moved there, we were an eight-story 5 building, 45 units, and we sat there all 6 alone. The other two buildings that were 7 closer to the Venetian Causeway, one was 8 built earlier, but the Nine Island Avenue 9 and all the rest of them came later. 10 My recollection of the beautiful 11 north side has been the same as it is now. 12 I think they were built in the 1939, 13 somewhere before the '42 mark that you all 14 have. And those beautiful cottages that 15 are there, the three-story building that 16 is there, that was torn down, tear down, 17 has a feeling of Mediterranean, quiet and 18 solitude. It's lovely. The spa 19 managed -- they try to go up higher. 20 That's what I believe brought the lawsuit 21 on, and they gave up, they sold the 22 property, and the man who bought it has 23 done a beautiful job and he seems to be 24 happy with where he is now. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 30 I believe that the buildings that are 1 being projected, being talked about now, 2 are much too modern, and they don't give 3 you that Mediterranean look. I think 4 they're too high. Fifty feet is what the 5 law is, but they're going to be up 68 feet 6 by the time you add all the things they 7 put on the roof. That's almost a 8 high-rise in itself. 9 I did want to start to thank Staff, 10 but I think the Design Review Board Staff 11 report was very, very good. I know a lot 12 of time and energy went in it, and I 13 commend them for all of their homework. 14 I also want to thank Mr. William 15 Cary. I was talked to rather insolently 16 by a young man representing this project, 17 and he came to my rescue, and I think let 18 him know that his remarks were 19 unnecessary. I appreciate it. 20 I just want to say that to tear down 21 those three-story buildings with the 22 beautiful red tile, Spanish tile roof, and 23 put something as modern as this is going 24 to be, and as large as it's going to be, 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 31 is out of context with the rest of the 1 neighborhood on that side. And I feel 2 that what they have there now is lovely.3 The density of their building that 4 many more units is going to affect life on 5 Belle Isle. It's going to affect -- I 6 know that this is not your problem, the 7 traffic that will ensue from that small 8 bridge, or the infrastructure, but our 9 infrastructure is pretty bad now. We 10 absolutely are flooded when we get a 11 large, heavy rain. There's nothing that 12 -- two cars were stalled a few weeks ago 13 in that storm, and we cannot take care of 14 any more. I feel that the integrity of 15 the island should be kept the way it is. 16 I don't think we need a modern building on 17 that side. And to try to correct, as one 18 of the people that was speaking said, to 19 say the south side is overbuilt, they're 20 correct. That doesn't mean the north side 21 now has to make the same mistake. 22 Thank you, and I appreciate your 23 time. 24 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Thank you, ma'am.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 32 MS. FEINER: I wasn't planning to say 1 anything, but my name is Judy Feiner, and 2 I live at 11 Island Avenue. 3 There is so much traffic on the 4 Venetian Causeway, cars and buses and 5 everything else, but the Venetian Causeway 6 is a getaway. In case of a hurricane, 7 they advise people to use, besides the 8 McArthur Causeway, but to use the Venetian 9 Causeway. And all these extra cars, 60 10 extra apartments, would be maybe 70 cars, 11 80 cars more. It really is going to be 12 very difficult for the island to -- you 13 know, people going -- using the Venetian 14 Causeway in case of accidents or 15 hurricanes, and especially traffic. If 16 anything happens on the McArthur Causeway, 17 we can't even cross to get to the north 18 side of the island, living on the south 19 side. The traffic is so heavily, so bad. 20 Thank you. 21 Oh, incidentally, our lawyer on the 22 case in 1990 is now a judge, Judge 23 Fletcher. It was his first big job. 24 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Thank you.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 9 of 28 sheets Page 33 to 36 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 33 MS. FEINER: You're welcome.1 MS. GILLMAN: Barbara Gillman. 2 Excuse me. Barbara Gillman, 16 Island 3 Avenue. And I was also born here, 4 Marcella.5 Anyway, I just have three things to 6 say. 7 One is that when the landscaping is 8 going to take five years to grow, we're 9 going to see everything. Why not plant 10 larger trees? That's one thing that I'd 11 like to say. 12 Second thing is, security on the 13 boardwalk. That's going to be not -- not 14 be dawn to dusk. It says nine -- unless 15 you've changed it. Early in the morning 16 till nine at night. I will hope that you 17 will think about security on the 18 boardwalk. 19 And then of course we get to traffic. 20 The traffic that's going to occur when 21 they are building this building, the 22 traffic that's going to occur when we talk 23 to the people involved in it, when we had 24 our meetings, about where is the garbage 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 34 truck going to go, where are people going 1 to deliver things. It was sort of iffy. 2 And we're not quite sure where that 3 traffic is going to be, so I hope you will 4 consider all of this. 5 I see your different requests, and 6 have they all been met is my question to 7 you, that you have all kinds of ideas. 8 Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Thank you. 10 MS. SUSSKIND: If I may, the judge on 11 the case was John Fletcher. He has since 12 passed away. He passed away in February 13 of this year. You're shaking your head, 14 so you know about Judge Fletcher. 15 I notice in the recommendations of 16 the Staff that it says it shall be reduced 17 by one story pending the review board. 18 Marcella, is that on Page 8 of the 14-page 19 report? It shall? Ms. Medina? And I 20 understand that the Board is highly 21 responsive to the Staff, so I ask you 22 please again to take another look at that. 23 The second thing I'd like to point 24 out in terms of security, if I'm not 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 35 mistaken, the ground floor apartments of 1 the buildings, each apartment is going to 2 have access directly out to the street, 3 and I'm wondering about security. We have 4 a rental building that the minimum rental 5 is six months, and I don't intend to cast 6 any aspersions on people who rent. What 7 I'm pointing out is it depends upon the 8 watchfulness and the mindfulness of the 9 individual tenants in that building. If 10 even one of those people leaves the door 11 unlocked during the day, that is a direct 12 access into that entire apartment complex. 13 Pardon me? Yes, so if each -- if I enter 14 your garden door, and walk through your 15 front door into the building, I'm on the 16 property, or I'm not on the property? 17 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: You don't get 18 into the building. You would get into my 19 apartment.20 MS. SUSSKIND: Yes. And is that the 21 only door into your apartment, the garden 22 entry.23 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: I don't think you 24 can enter the apartments from the garage.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 36 MS. SUSSKIND: Do we know? 1 MR. REVUELTA: You can enter the 2 apartment from both sides, as Staff has 3 requested entrance to the outside to 4 enhance the urban character of the 5 neighborhood. We are agreeing with that.6 MS. SUSSKIND: The architect is 7 saying you can have more than one 8 entrance. You can enter the apartment 9 from both sides, and that the Staff asked 10 for that garden entry. Am I correct? 11 Please come up. 12 MR. REVUELTA: You can enter the 13 apartment from both sides. I understand 14 Staff is requesting, and we are agreeing, 15 that also be an entrance from the south 16 side to those apartments, to enhance the 17 urban character of the neighborhood, and 18 we are agreeing with that request. As a 19 matter of fact, we had it originally. So, 20 at this point, whatever the Staff and 21 whatever the Board wants, we'll do.22 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: I mean, there's a 23 similar condition in the Grand Flamingo, 24 ma'am, where all the rental apartments 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 37 to 40 of 109 10 of 28 sheets 37 have entrance that way. And worst case 1 scenario, you can have that type of a 2 trespass. I have not heard of anything 3 that happens. I mean, it's a common type 4 of design. And there is a risk. It 5 really boils down to the responsibility of 6 the tenant to keep their facility -- their 7 unit locked.8 MS. SUSSKIND: Thank you.9 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: But thank you for 10 that.11 MS. SUSSKIND: And I have one 12 question, if I may, and thank you for your 13 time. 14 When it's stipulated that there's a 15 five-story building, it was my impression 16 that that meant five stories, whether 17 they're inhabited or not, but I notice 18 that in the writings that there's a big 19 difference made between habitable and 20 non-habitable. And I don't know how the 21 statute reads, and I challenge you on 22 that. If a five-story building is a 23 five-story building, then that means the 24 appurtenances for elevators and stairwells 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 38 and everything else having to do with it 1 is five stories. 2 So would you please explain that 3 difference to us, how a five-story 4 building can be six? Thank you. 5 MR. CARY: Stair penthouse is an 6 elevator penthouse. Mechanical penthouses 7 are allowed to exceed five-story height, 8 up to 25 feet maximum. 9 MS. SUSSKIND: Thank you. And thank 10 you for the chance to speak. 11 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: I had a question, 12 ma'am, while you're up there. What was 13 the tenor, what was the result of your 14 meeting with the applicant? Didn't you 15 have a meeting recently, the residents 16 recently with the -- 17 MS. SUSSKIND: Yes, we did.18 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Was there a 19 consensus? What did you -- 20 MS. SUSSKIND: About what, please? 21 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: What is the 22 status of your -- of the neighborhood 23 opinion, acceptance or your -- oh, I'm 24 sorry. Okay.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 39 MS. SUSSKIND: I'm a Libra, so I need 1 to give you both sides. 2 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Okay. I'm sorry. 3 I wasn't aware that -- I thought we were 4 closing out the public comment.5 MS. SUSSKIND: I'll step down now for 6 Scott Diffenderfer. Thank you.7 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Thank you.8 MR. DIFFENDERFER: Good morning, I'm 9 Scott Diffenderfer. I live at 20 Island 10 Avenue, and I'm the president of the Belle 11 Isle Residents Association. I want to 12 thank everybody for all the hard work 13 you've all put into this, particularly 14 Staff. 15 We've been going through this 16 process, and we've met with the -- with 17 the applicant on several occasions. 18 Back in March of 2009, we did write a 19 letter to the architect with some 20 conditions that it would take for the 21 neighborhood to support the project. I 22 have to give a lot of credit for all the 23 issues that have been resolved, 24 particularly removing the bridge, 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 40 expanding the view corridor, changing the 1 facade to break up the perception of such 2 a huge long building, the addition of 3 landscaping that's been proposed. Those 4 are all things that we -- that we're very 5 happy with, and we appreciate the help. 6 We're still -- a couple of the 7 conditions. We're back to the five 8 stories versus four-story height. And we 9 did want some concession with breaking out 10 that long building and the height. That's 11 not -- not obviously been addressed, and I 12 understand why the architect has not 13 addressed that. 14 In addition, the concerns that are 15 maybe not this Board's purview are going 16 to be with the infrastructure and with the 17 traffic. We've had, again, since this 18 project has been proposed, two massive 19 floods. The city still has not been able 20 to rectify the pump station. And so the 21 sentiment of the neighborhood is not one 22 more unit should be built there until this 23 has been fixed, and it's not been fixed. 24 And while I understand that's not your 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 11 of 28 sheets Page 41 to 44 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 41 problem, I do. It is the feeling of the 1 neighborhood that there's just -- there's 2 too much there already. The city is not 3 dealing with it properly. 4 And for that point, in addition to 5 these other design points, the 6 neighborhood is not able to support the 7 project at this inception. So thank you.8 MS. GILLMAN: He asked about the -- 9 I'm sorry, coming back. You asked about 10 how the neighborhood feels. At the last 11 meeting, when the gentleman showed the 12 slides and spoke about it, unfortunately 13 two of the buildings on Belle Island were 14 having their own board meetings, and the 15 subject was assessments, so nobody could 16 go. They were all at their own board 17 meetings, which was planned months in 18 advance, so -- but they're all against it. 19 MR. KASDIN: Mr. Chair, just for the 20 record, and for the benefit of the new 21 Board Member as well, a couple of things 22 to remind you of. 23 Number 1, there's only a modest 24 increase in the total number of units over 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 42 the existing buildings. Currently, the 1 existing buildings do not have enough 2 parking spaces to handle the tenants of 3 that building, therefore, a lot of the 4 parking is on Island Avenue, and it 5 contributes to crowded parking conditions 6 on Island Avenue. This new building will 7 contain adequate parking to house all the 8 residents and visitors' needs as well. So 9 we will alleviate parking conditions on 10 Island Avenue. 11 The second thing I would point out 12 with respect to the flooding, which is the 13 city storm water issue, the construction 14 of new improvements will provide for 15 improved on-site storm water handling, 16 which will then help the situation in 17 terms of storm water on Belle Isle, 18 because the system on the property itself 19 will be better than the existing system or 20 lack of system on that property. So all 21 the conditions, this is a net plus for 22 Belle Isle in terms of flooding, in terms 23 of parking, and has no impact of any 24 measurable consequence at all with respect 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 43 to parking or traffic -- with respect to 1 traffic, I should say. 2 MS. WERBLOW: I notice that this 3 first came up in 2009. I was not aware of 4 it. I understand by law you send out one 5 notice that you were going to -- they're 6 going to appeal to you to build this 7 building. There's been one continuance 8 after another, month-to-month, asked by 9 the developers. We got no notices. I got 10 no notices there was a continuance from 11 January to February to March. And there 12 would be a great number of other residents 13 that feel as we do, but this is the middle 14 of July. Fifty percent of our residents 15 are up north. And I feel that this was 16 manipulated to the point where it was held 17 in July last year, and July this year and 18 the developers kept asking for a 19 continuance. And it feels -- I feel that 20 they did that knowing that there be no one 21 here to give them problem.22 MR. KASDIN: Mr. Chair, just very 23 briefly. 24 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: If I may, Mr. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 44 Kasdin.1 Ma'am, we've been involved in this 2 process for over a year, and we've been 3 working with them and we've been talking 4 about neighborhood meetings. There was no 5 -- I do not feel that there was any 6 manipulation regarding the continuances.7 MS. WERBLOW: But they requested -- 8 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: I understand, 9 ma'am, but part of their continuances were 10 also on some of the requirements that we 11 were putting on them in regards to design 12 and changes and whatnot. And some of our 13 requirements of revising their project 14 were at a point where they could not do 15 the work within one week and then resubmit 16 to us. They would -- needed an extra 17 month. So instead of showing up next 18 month, it was a two-month process. So 19 that -- and that's part of that -- that 20 contributed to the continuances. I really 21 don't feel that there was -- we've -- 22 we've been -- there's been times when 23 we've said have you met with the 24 neighbors? And there are times when 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 45 to 48 of 109 12 of 28 sheets 45 they've said we haven't yet, and we 1 emphasized you need to meet with the 2 neighbors. But to the point where there 3 was an actual manipulation, I don't think 4 it was manipulation, ma'am. I think maybe 5 we could have said there could have been 6 improved communication at times, but I 7 wouldn't go as far as saying there was 8 manipulation to keep you and the 9 neighborhood out of the loop. 10 MR. KASDIN: Mr. Chair, if I may, 11 just for the record. 12 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Go ahead.13 MR. KASDIN: To the complete 14 contrary, we have always come before this 15 Board seeking approval. The continuances 16 have not been at our initiation, although 17 they have been with our agreement. A 18 number of the continuances were because of 19 the requests of island residences -- 20 residents to have more input. And there 21 were a number of meetings, perhaps four or 22 five meetings, with the island residents. 23 So I would respectfully say that the 24 continuances are more due to the desire to 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 46 get input from the island residents, and 1 in response to changes. We've always been 2 prepared to move forward. 3 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: I agree, Mr. 4 Kasdin. There was every other reason 5 except manipulation for the continuances, 6 so no problem whatsoever. 7 Ma'am, please.8 MS. SUSSKIND: Thank you again. 9 I'd like to disagree with Mr. Kasdin. 10 The original use, if I'm remembering, is 11 120 apartments are there now. Intended 12 are 181. For him to say that that's a 13 modest increase, when it represents a 50% 14 increase, I believe is to direct you in 15 the wrong direction as far as the numbers 16 are concerned, from 120 present to 181 17 now. Thank you. 18 MR. KASDIN: I don't want to continue 19 this soliloquy, monologue, or soliloquy, I 20 should say, but the island has a few 21 thousand units on it. The addition of 60 22 units is di minimus and has no impact. 23 MR. LEEDS: My name is David Leeds. 24 I live at 20 Island Avenue. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 47 One subject that I'm concerned about, 1 I don't know that I've heard much mention 2 of it, is the congestion. I was at both 3 meetings that the architects -- was held 4 with the architects of the island. 5 Is the congestion during two-year 6 construction period of demolition and 7 construction, the dirt, the mess, 8 everything that's going to be created 9 right there, where most of the residents 10 who live in the buildings on the -- I 11 guess it's on the east side -- sorry, is 12 that on the south side of the Venetian 13 Way, it's going to be a nightmare there. 14 And they say that they're going to bring 15 the workers in from other places. I 16 supposed they will. I can't argue with 17 that. I don't really know, but -- and I 18 don't know whether this is a proper matter 19 for you to consider in your vote, but it's 20 certainly going to be a two-year nightmare 21 or more for all of us who live there. 22 I have a partial view of the complex 23 now from my apartment, and I'm not looking 24 forward to all the mess, and the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 48 congestion and everything that's going to 1 be there. So I certainly would appreciate 2 you taking that into consideration. 3 Thank you. 4 MR. REVUELTA: If I can make just one 5 comment on this, actually a 6 non-architectural comment, and more so on 7 behalf of the new member. 8 I think it's important to remember 9 that this property has been owned by the 10 same owner for 20 some years. That this 11 property used to have a substantially 12 higher density and intensity, and 200 feet 13 in height. He's owned this property all 14 through all that. He got down zoned from 15 200 feet to 50 feet. He probably lost 16 mathematically 75%, or three quarters of 17 the height that he had. And I have not 18 figured out the density or the -- but it 19 was reduced. So I think that after owning 20 this property for so many years, for the 21 owner to continue to have to give up 22 further and further, I'm speaking now not 23 as an architect, but I just don't feel 24 that it's just. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 13 of 28 sheets Page 49 to 52 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 49 And I feel that we've tried to do the 1 best possible job that we've been able to 2 do in terms of architecture, to be 3 sensitive, and we've put ourselves aside 4 as architects, and basically try to cater 5 to the group of neighbors, to Staff and to 6 this Board, so I'd like to leave you with 7 that. 8 Thanks. 9 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Ma'am, I really 10 would like to start with Board comment. 11 So if we could -- 12 MS. SUSSKIND: One last question, if 13 I may.14 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Go right ahead.15 MS. SUSSKIND: Thank you. I 16 appreciate your indulgence. 17 Can you tell me what did happen to 18 the Staff recommendation, that the height 19 of the southeast portion of the project, 20 et cetera, shall be reduced by a minimum 21 of one floor? And it's on Page 8 of the 22 Staff report.23 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: That's one of the 24 conditions that's on the report.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 50 MS. SUSSKIND: Yes.1 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: It will be 2 discussed in Board comment.3 MS. SUSSKIND: Thank you. 4 And does your purview extend to the 5 way the pilings are drilled? 6 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Not -- no, ma'am, 7 they're not. 8 MS. SUSSKIND: If it does, we're in 9 favor. If it does go ahead with auger 10 drills instead of the pounding. Thank 11 you. 12 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Okay. I'd like to 13 hold -- hold Board -- hold public comment 14 for now, so we can start Board comment.15 Okay. Can we get Board comment? 16 Go right ahead. 17 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Thank you so 18 much for all your comments. I really 19 appreciate it. 20 And I understand, Mr. Revuelta, and 21 Barbara, that you've all been making some 22 changes. 23 I still have some clarification just 24 on the Staff report. Just to confirm, we 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 51 are looking at 181 units? 1 MR. REVUELTA: Yes.2 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: As opposed to 3 178. And 315 parking spaces instead of 4 316, 'cause that's referenced in the Staff 5 report. Okay, so that's confirmed. 6 Also, we don't have a survey in our 7 packet. And I'm just curious as to the 8 existing parking that's on Venetian Way, 9 right between the two buildings that are 10 being proposed. That small area that's 11 got some median and some landscaping, is 12 that part of your project or not? 13 MR. REVUELTA: No.14 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: No. That's 15 outside of your -- but you will be 16 eliminating the nine or so parking spaces 17 that exists right now on Venetian Way, 18 that are abutting Venetian Way? Yeah, 19 you're removing those? 20 MS. PEDERZOLI: Yeah, internalizing 21 it. 22 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Okay. Thank 23 you. 24 I'll hold my comments until later, or 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 52 on the design. 1 MR. HELD: Who is Vice Chair? Go 2 ahead. 3 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: I'll take over. 4 Just in time. 5 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Thank you, Mr. 6 Chair. 7 I don't even know where to start. 8 Much better. I think you have worked 9 really hard, Mr. Revuelta. I think that 10 when you first came here and trucked out 11 Regatta II, we were hoping that you 12 would -- and Barbara would use your 13 talents to come up with something fresh 14 and new for the Venetian, and I think you 15 have. So although I feel for you, this 16 design by committee, which is not the way 17 great architectural minds like to work, I 18 think that you have risen to the occasion 19 and have come forth with a -- what I think 20 is a beautiful new project for the 21 Venetian. Notwithstanding the neighbors' 22 concerns about height and density. I 23 think if you take that from the picture, 24 and you just look at what you're proposing 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 53 to 56 of 109 14 of 28 sheets 53 to build on the site, and the 1 incorporation of the bay walk that you all 2 are proffering, that's not required. That 3 you all are offering to the city, I think 4 it's a beautiful thing. 5 I think moving the buildings away 6 from the Venetian, 'cause I ride there all 7 the time, I think that's a wonderful asset 8 to the livability of the whole island. I 9 think that you have worked really, really 10 hard, and I commend you and commend your 11 long birthing process of this. It was 12 almost wailing in the time that you 13 birthed this building.14 My concern happens is a technical 15 one, and we've gone back and forth on what 16 makes a luxury building and how it's going 17 to operate. And I'm concerned now with 18 you moving -- although I understand the 19 aesthetics of moving to a hydraulic with a 20 jack rather than a traction elevator. 21 Five floors is really the upper most 22 limits that a jack elevator will work. 23 And so now you're only going to have one 24 elevator in the little building, and it's 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 54 going to be a freight elevator? There's 1 going to be two. One is a freight 2 elevator and one is not? 3 MR. REVUELTA: The two are going to 4 be passenger, but in case of moving or 5 freight, then one will be used as freight 6 and the other one will continue to be used 7 as passenger.8 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: And they're 9 both going to be jacks or is one going to 10 be -- 11 MR. REVUELTA: Both are going to be 12 hydraulics, but that's what Staff 13 requested and we're agreeing to it. 14 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I'm just 15 concerned about the feasibility of that 16 with a rental unit, and doing all that 17 heavy move in and move out to the fifth 18 floor on a jack all the time. 19 MR. REVUELTA: If you want, we can 20 explore. Please don't put it as an 21 absolute condition. We can explore adding 22 another elevator, but I would request to 23 please -- 24 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I don't think 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 55 it needs another elevator. I think one of 1 them needs to be a traction with a heavier 2 weight capacity. 3 MR. REVUELTA: I think if you do 4 that, that creates an elevator machine 5 room, and that goes towards what Staff is 6 trying to do, which is to maintain the 7 profile of this building. 8 Now, what we can explore, and I don't 9 know if it's now available for this type 10 of building, is the elevators that have 11 the machine on top of the elevator. 12 They're machine room-less the machine 13 itself rides with the elevator, and it's 14 like a traction, but it's traction tracted 15 by the own elevator. We can certainly 16 explore that, and you can put it as part 17 of a condition. 18 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I'm just -- 19 MR. REVUELTA: If it's available, 20 we'll explore the use of it.21 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I'm just 22 concerned with the longevity of this 23 elevator on a jack used heavily for moving 24 in and out. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 56 MR. REVUELTA: Well, I do agree with 1 you. And that's what we were -- 'cause 2 hydraulic elevators are good for two, 3 three, four stories. 4 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Right.5 MR. REVUELTA: Once you go to five, I 6 actually think maximum, maximum is six, 7 depending on floor to floor height. But 8 the monospace, which is what they call the 9 elevators, are traction elevators that 10 they do not need a machine room. So I 11 would beg from the Board to let us work 12 out those options with Staff, and we 13 certainly will be open minded about it.14 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I mean, I 15 understand Staff's objectives about 16 clearing a roof, and I think that changing 17 the elevator from a traction to a jack is 18 almost a no-brainer thing when you're 19 concerned about the roof. But as a 20 property manager, I know what it is to 21 operate these buildings when people are 22 really living in them. And a five-story 23 hydraulic elevator is, in my mind, a 24 disaster waiting to happen. I mean, 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 15 of 28 sheets Page 57 to 60 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 57 you've got this thin piston going up and 1 down carrying everybody's possessions in 2 and out for these move outs, and I just 3 don't think that it's possible. So I 4 think this idea of having machine-room 5 less traction elevators is a good one. I 6 think it adds more money to your project. 7 MR. REVUELTA: It does. But they're 8 call monospace. And we'll be more than 9 glad. Staff was very concerned, and we 10 said yes.11 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: But I think 12 that, you know, looking five, 10, 15 years 13 down the line with this building, I think 14 that the owners would be happier not 15 having to dig out that jack after two 16 years -- 17 MR. REVUELTA: I do agree with you.18 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: -- when it 19 starts to bend at the top. And five 20 floors is really -- 21 MR. REVUELTA: At this point, 22 whatever the Board wants, we'll follow. 23 MR. CARY: Also, Staff is 24 recommending four stories for that 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 58 building, not five stories.1 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: You have just 2 been beaten down with this, haven't you? 3 MR. REVUELTA: The only thing we've 4 not been able to give up is the extra 5 story on this building, just because we 6 feel that we've done tremendous amount of 7 sighting, tremendous amount of everything 8 that we can to be respectful to Venetian 9 Causeway. 10 I think the introduction of the park 11 or park-like setting on the east part is 12 something that goes a long way to 13 respecting the historical quality of 14 Venetian Causeway. But, other than that, 15 at this point, like you said, no yellow, 16 no yellow. I like yellow, but no yellow, 17 no yellow. I thought some members of 18 Staff liked yellow, but -- 19 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: And my last 20 comment will be, I don't know how the 21 Board --the rest of the Board will go, I 22 liked it with one building blue glass, one 23 building green glass. I like that a lot.24 MR. REVUELTA: You liked the combi -- 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 59 well, at the end -- 1 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I liked it a 2 lot. 3 MR. REVUELTA: -- I will let my 4 fellow peer architect, Mr. William Cary, 5 discuss that, but I just put myself aside. 6 Whatever I'm told to do, we'll specify it. 7 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Thank you. 8 Thank you so much. 9 And thank you to all the neighbors 10 who came out. It's wonderful to see you 11 all coming here today. Thank you.12 MR. CARY: I think we already have -- 13 don't we have a blue and green diamond 14 currently? So we thought it be better to 15 have different design, but same product 16 glass ultimately. 17 Also, Staff is perfectly fine with 18 the applicant exploring an equipment 19 room-less elevator. We think that's an 20 excellent suggestion. 21 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I mean, I see 22 where you were trying to go, but, 23 practically, William, a five-floor 24 hydraulic elevator is just not going to 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 60 last. It's just not.1 MR. CARY: Well, we were also 2 thinking of a four-story building. 3 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Good morning, Mr. 4 Revuelta, Ms. Pederzoli. 5 I wanted to start out by -- with an 6 apology, actually, because at one of the 7 last meetings, I think my voice became a 8 little strident, and I think that simply 9 reflected a frustration, because this has 10 been such a long slog. And I remember a 11 dialogue with your team before on this 12 Board that to my mind resulted in a much 13 better project, which I'm sincerely sorry 14 it never got built. And this has been 15 since, you know, a year and a half now. 16 And I think my voice got a little strident 17 because I was making the analogy with 5th 18 and Alton, which to me is an equally 19 important and visible site, as is this 20 site. And I was getting anxious that we 21 might -- you know, looking at your 22 imploring looks, and the stern looks from 23 your attorneys, you know, that there might 24 be some pressure on this Board to -- you 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 61 to 64 of 109 16 of 28 sheets 61 know, we have empathy. You put in a lot 1 of time, spend a lot of work, you've made 2 many efforts, but I, to this date, do not 3 find that the result is sufficiently 4 positive to warrant being approved today. 5 And just -- I know I have probably 6 been the most vocal person with concerns 7 about this project from the inception. I 8 would point out that in a year and a half, 9 there has never been a motion to approve 10 this. So if it were only my strident 11 opinions, it would have gotten approved a 12 long time ago, but clearly there was not a 13 great deal of enthusiasm for this project 14 for a very long time. That may change 15 today. 16 So I just wanted to point out that I 17 think you all could have started to 18 respond much earlier in the process than 19 you did, and we find ourselves today at a 20 kind of a, you know, the last gasp. 21 I think there were incremental 22 changes that you all were making for a 23 while. You know, you'd shave off some 24 stuff here and you would mess with the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 62 balconies a little bit. And I think this 1 Board was actually very forbearing, 'cause 2 I think we're in good faith, and I think 3 we made a lot of suggestions, you know, 4 referring to the W. If you really insist 5 on using a lot of glass, you know, look 6 what they did, look at what other projects 7 did. 8 My problem today, as it has been from 9 the beginning -- and I would like to point 10 out this is absolutely no reflection on 11 your talent, your capacities. I came 12 across, sort of interesting, in the 13 Financial Times, just two weeks ago. I've 14 never seen an editorial -- this is not an 15 opinion piece, an editorial that has to do 16 with a very famous architect whose project 17 was rejected. And I just -- reading 18 along. "The plans for the site, a series 19 of uninspiring glass stumps designed by 20 the modernist Lord Rogers were 21 inappropriate to their surroundings." And 22 I hate to say, the description of glass 23 stumps immediately brought up what we have 24 been looking at for a year and a half. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 63 And it's not a question of talent and your 1 design. In my mind, could go very well in 2 a number of other sites. I still find 3 that it is entirely insensitive and 4 inappropriate to the context of this site. 5 So it has nothing to do with your talent, 6 your capacities. It has to do with what 7 is best for this corner and entrance of 8 the Venetian. It's not only the 9 neighbors' perception of your project and, 10 you know, the hassles that are going to 11 come from construction. This is something 12 that we will all be looking at for a long 13 time, and from across the bay and from all 14 sides.15 And I think that the progress that 16 has been made on the larger building does 17 not in any way attenuate the fact that 18 that is still a broad side. 19 And, basically, the way you describe 20 the developer's intentions, and 21 motivations and his whole project is he 22 needed parking. He's not getting that 23 many more units. And basically you are 24 losing something that is like a very 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 64 charming Loise field (phonetic) campus, 1 which had a lot of potential. I think a 2 developer could do something really 3 interesting with that campus. 4 Notwithstanding what Mr. Kasdin is always 5 saying, it actually does create an 6 impression of permeability, which is a 7 word I've used over and over again. So I 8 think you're losing this campus. You're 9 getting this clearly improved larger 10 building. And, for me, you know, steps 11 have been made for it in the larger 12 building. It is somewhat more nuance now. 13 It is somewhat less of a glass stump. But 14 I find that the other smaller building has 15 actually taken steps backwards. So, to 16 me, it remains a glass stump. 17 And I don't know if all these 18 conditions will be met today. I don't 19 know if you're going to sacrifice the 20 floor. So far I think the developer has 21 always resisted things, or is in the other 22 dialogue that this Board had with you on 23 Regatta II. The developer was much more 24 willing to compromise on -- you know, 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 17 of 28 sheets Page 65 to 68 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 65 turning some studios into one bedrooms, 1 giving up some parking. In this case, we 2 are actually finding we have more units 3 are being crammed on this site again. 4 So I give you credit for working, and 5 I just think that the -- I think that the 6 obligation of this Board is really more 7 towards the context, the perception of 8 Venetian for the next, you know, 20 years. 9 And as much as I admire all the work and 10 effort you put into it, I do not still 11 think that this is -- I think the word 12 was, uninspiring glass stumps. I'm sorry 13 to say that sort of reminded me a little 14 too much of this project. 15 Thank you. 16 MR. REVUELTA: I'd like to say that 17 I'm just flattered to be in the same name 18 -- being named in the same mention as 19 Richard Rogers. 20 MS. GRAHAM: I'm just here from Costa 21 Brava and I just want to --22 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Name.23 MS. GRAHAM: Kathy Graham. I'm on 24 the Board of Costa Brava. And I just want 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 66 to say -- I came late, because I do work. 1 I just want to say that this project 2 is ill conceived for a million reasons. 3 I'm sure everyone else has brought them 4 up. But for every person that was able to 5 come today, there are easily 20 people 6 that live on this area that are against 7 this development, not because we're 8 against development or change, but because 9 it doesn't add anything and it only causes 10 more problems.11 So we would appreciate your support 12 in looking, as this member has stated, to 13 the whole picture, and just not 14 rubber-stamping anything because it's a 15 developer. 16 Thank you. 17 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Okay. Luis, I 18 just wanted to have you reaffirm that the 19 view corridor between the two buildings 20 will be at a level such as -- such that 21 someone on the sidewalk will be able to 22 see through and see the bay and not be 23 blocked by the pool or any drives. 24 MR. REVUELTA: I hereby reaffirm that 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 67 we will do that until we're blue in the 1 face, and are threatened to be taking my 2 license away by FEMA or other municipal, 3 state or national organization. 4 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Okay. Thank 5 you. And I appreciate -- you know, 6 really, I think that the canopy solution 7 was the better way to go on this project. 8 It's just thinner, airier, and I think it 9 works better.10 Could you point out -- you're adding 11 some stucco or concrete balconies or 12 whatever to the front side of the 13 building. 14 MR. REVUELTA: Actually, we're doing 15 that on the southeast and north part of 16 the west building. And Staff has 17 recommended that we continue to work with 18 them in the detailing and how to carry 19 that through. And we've agreed to do 20 that.21 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Yeah, because on 22 704 there's, you know, the diagram, it 23 fronts Island Avenue. It's very three 24 dimensional, the graphic. There's nothing 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 68 showing same three dimensional, I guess, 1 look on the bay side. And I just wanted 2 to make sure it's -- 3 MR. REVUELTA: We are doing that. 4 You can put it as part of the condition. 5 We're agreeing with Staff to further work 6 on the refinement of that, including what 7 materials we can use to execute the 8 layering effect of the two geometric 9 forms, the rectangular form versus the 10 other one. 11 MR. CARY: Also, the Staff condition 12 recommends that stepping be continued 13 further north on the bay side.14 MR. REVUELTA: And we have no problem 15 with that. 16 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: So one or two 17 more banks of -- 18 MR. CARY: Yes, it will be at least 19 equal to stepping that we have on the 20 south side facing the causeway. 21 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Should I bring 22 up the main issue? 23 I think, in my mind, the last point 24 of discussion is the -- 3A, the height of 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 69 to 72 of 109 18 of 28 sheets 69 the southeast portion of the project. 1 Staff is recommending minimum one foot -- 2 you know, that smaller building be reduced 3 by one floor. So I think that's, in my 4 mind, a point of discussion. 5 You're not agreeing to that, and the 6 Staff is been I think saying that for most 7 of the past year and a half. I'd like to 8 see at least a portion of the top floor be 9 knocked down, so just a stepping up. But 10 I think that's what we're going to leave 11 it, you know, discuss that. 12 MR. KASDIN: Mr. Chair, Mr. David, I 13 would like to point out that this is -- 14 this recommendation is carried forward 15 from the very beginning. I would like to 16 point out the great mitigation that the 17 change in the design has worked by 18 stepping back the building, by making this 19 building more elliptical in shape. And so 20 I believe that it -- they very 21 successfully have reduced any perceived 22 impact that would have on the causeway by 23 the open space, by the shaping of it. And 24 I would again point out that in context 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 70 with the other three buildings that front 1 right on the Venetian Causeway, this is 2 far and away the most minimal. 3 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: And I agree. 4 You know, that's -- again, what is the 5 distance between the sidewalk to the small 6 building? 7 MR. REVUELTA: It's 32 feet, 32 and a 8 half feet, as opposed to nine foot seven 9 that it is now, 32 feet three inches. And 10 then in the other direction, it's 100 -- 11 Barbara? It's 99.8 -- 12 MR. KASDIN: You need a microphone. 13 MR. REVUELTA: Versus 52. 14 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: The distance 15 proposed from the causeway now to this 16 building is, you said -- 17 MR. KASDIN: Barbara. 18 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: From the 19 existing sidewalk to the proposed 20 building, the closest point to the 21 sidewalk is? 22 MS. PEDERZOLI: At this point? 23 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Yeah. 24 MS. PEDERZOLI: 99.8. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 71 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: 99.8 versus the 1 Vistas, which is minimal. Three Island, 2 which is even worse. So the point I'm 3 making, you know, I'm still arguing for 4 maybe a stepping back on the top floor, 5 but the distance is not going to be 6 anything -- anywhere near Three Island or 7 the Vistas. 8 MR. REVUELTA: That's our point of 9 contention, that besides my position as 10 what I think has happened to this property 11 historically in terms of losing rights, 12 architecturally, Staff and us have not 13 been able to see eye to eye that if you -- 14 if you have a structure that you're 15 pushing back on the south side three times 16 as much as it is now, and almost twice as 17 much as it is now, then there's absolutely 18 no need to make this building any lower. 19 That we feel that architecturally it's the 20 right thing to do, and I think 21 urbanistically what we are creating here 22 is substantially better than what is there 23 now and what is there on other properties 24 on the causeway. That actually the feel 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 72 that you're going to have as you're 1 driving west on the causeway on Island 2 Avenue is a feeling of park-like. And to 3 actually take one floor out of this 4 building, I am sorry, I don't want to 5 insult anybody, but I see absolutely no 6 architectural purpose for it. 7 I think when you look at this 8 property, and this project, when it's 9 built, and you look at the style of 10 architecture, or, in my opinion, in some 11 buildings a lack of style of architecture 12 that exists on the island, this building 13 would be a plus. I cannot believe that 14 this building 50 years from now or five 15 years from now is going to be a minus or a 16 detriment to the architectural quality of 17 the island. I'm in a different galaxy 18 here with Clotilde, and I guess on the -- 19 on the upper floor with Staff. I just 20 don't see it. 21 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: What the -- how 22 far does the Grand Venetian setback from 23 the sidewalk on the south side? 24 MR. REVUELTA: The Grand Venetian.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 19 of 28 sheets Page 73 to 76 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 73 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Because I want 1 to compare -- I want to compare.2 MR. REVUELTA: We have aerial 3 photograph -- I think you have an aerial 4 photograph and we have an aerial 5 photograph that we can take a look at, and 6 probably approximate it using a car or a 7 parking space, but --8 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: I think it may 9 be -- 10 MR. KASDIN: It says it here. It's 11 on our comparative chart. A setback is -- 12 the side is 40.13 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: That's not 14 right. If it's --15 MR. KASDIN: The rear is 22.16 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Well, no, on 17 Grand Venetian, I think, 70 feet sounds 18 about right.19 MR. KASDIN: Front is 68. I'm sorry. 20 Front is 68.21 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Right. So this 22 is setting back even further onto the 23 property than the Grand Venetian. I think 24 that's very important to realize, you 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 74 know.1 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: But, Alex, what 2 effect does that have on your perspective, 3 on the perception of the broad siding? I 4 mean, clearly the setback is a mitigation 5 that they're agreeing to, but that will do 6 absolutely nothing to alleviate the -- I 7 understand that the gap has grown after 8 months of haggling, but the broad siding 9 effect is not in any way alleviated, 10 either from Purdy Avenue, nor from driving 11 along. The garden effect is just going to 12 be, you know, window dressing on the fact 13 that you have basically a -- the shiny 14 shield that's less shiny. 15 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Are you talking 16 about the main building, Clotilde? The 17 broad side effect -- I mean, we're going 18 to have to -- as a Board, we're going to 19 have to address the fact that this is a 20 broad side building, and the only thing we 21 can do on this Board, as regard to design, 22 is try to mitigate the broad sidedness, 23 for lack of a better word, as best as 24 possible. We've been at it for over a 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 75 year. It's not going to go away, 1 Clotilde.2 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: It's a very long 3 building, but, remember, the building and 4 the island both curve. Again, you know, 5 I'm so -- the five floors, in the small 6 building, I'm still having an issue with 7 that. 8 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Thomas, it could 9 go away to a degree where they could 10 negotiate on the uni-sizes, which they 11 have refused to do consistently. 12 MR. REVUELTA: Not only that, but we 13 are hiding all of the parking of this 14 building.15 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: We understand. We 16 understand the nature of the main building 17 and the challenge --18 MR. REVUELTA: And if this building 19 would have been conceptually redesigned -- 20 AUDIENCE: How do you hide parking?21 MR. REVUELTA: Do I answer questions 22 from the neighbors? 23 MR. KASDIN: No, speak directly to --24 MR. REVUELTA: No, I knew the answer 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 76 to the question, but -- excuse me for my 1 lack of patience. 2 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: No problem. Take a 3 deep breath. 4 MR. REVUELTA: Yes, yes.5 If this building would have designed 6 as a campus building, you would have had 7 parking all over the place. 8 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Right. 9 MR. REVUELTA: And, again, I continue 10 to be in a different galaxy when it comes 11 to the fact that we are basically hiding 12 all of the parking within the inside of 13 the building, and trying now, to the 14 greatest extent that we -- our ability and 15 our talent can, to how to break up this 16 massing that is appropriate and to the 17 liking of a few people is contextually and 18 is well designed. And hopefully I don't 19 have to put in my will to demolish this 20 building after I die. So I think that 21 we've done enough to break up the mass of 22 that building. I disagree that it's going 23 to be a broad sided building. We're 24 curving the building on the water side. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 77 to 80 of 109 20 of 28 sheets 77 We're doing a lot of stuff on the Island 1 Avenue, Venetian Causeway site. And I 2 think the east building, by the nature 3 that it's slanted when you're driving west 4 on the Venetian Causeway, what you're 5 seeing is the narrowest portion of the 6 building kind of coming at you or fading 7 away from you. You are not seeing a broad 8 side. 9 Keep in mind -- and, again, this is 10 another frustration that I have as an 11 architect, that you do not see life -- 12 you're not standing in the same place for 13 three hours looking at something. You're 14 driving or you're walking, and it's a few 15 seconds. And I'm convinced that the 16 perception that you have for the few 17 minutes or few seconds, whether you're 18 walking or driving, of this property and 19 these buildings, is not going to be of a 20 massive stump, but that's the way I think.21 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: There's people 22 who are going to spend more than 40 23 seconds in the park across the bay. 24 There's that little park where there's 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 78 children playing. I personally am going 1 to spend an hour and 20 minutes at La 2 Folie. 3 MR. REVUELTA: They would, but if I 4 was at the park, I'll be looking at the 5 water, not at the building. The building 6 would be to my back. And, you know what, 7 I would spend two hours on the bay, but I 8 doubt it that I would spend two hours on 9 the bay with my back facing north and my 10 face facing south looking at this 11 building, but, you know, that's me. 12 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: It's not just -- 13 it's not just traffic going through there, 14 Mr. Revuelta. This is a building that 15 will be visible from the mainland. This 16 is a building that will be visible from 17 across the bay, from La Folie and the 18 park. I understand neighbors turned out 19 today, and it is a very common complaint 20 that, you know, you're ruining our views, 21 you're ruining our views. That's never 22 really the most pertinent argument for me. 23 The argument is --24 MR. REVUELTA: The most pertinent 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 79 argument for the neighbors is that they're 1 concerned about -- 2 THE AUDIENCE: Don't say the 3 neighbors. 4 MR. REVUELTA: No, I'm going to say 5 what I've heard at the meetings. Please.6 MR. HELD: Hold on for a second. 7 Please do not speak out from the audience. 8 We are trying to have a civil conversation 9 here. There's now a discussion going on 10 between the Board and the architect. 11 There was public comment previously, and 12 everybody who wanted to had a chance to 13 speak.14 MR. REVUELTA: We have heard many 15 comments about the architecture, but the 16 comment that has been consistent, a 17 concern of the neighbors, is traffic and 18 storm sewer. Those have been the two more 19 -- and then, of course, you have the 20 neighbors that saying not in my back yard, 21 which is a comment that I heard in one of 22 the meetings. I don't want any 23 construction in my back yard.24 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: That's what Im 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 80 saying, Mr. Revuelta. It's a much larger 1 consideration, which is why I keep 2 bringing up 5th and Alton, because it is a 3 very -- a very strategic site, which is 4 important to many -- from many 5 perspectives, and not simply theirs.6 MR. REVUELTA: I believe that, but I 7 think -- 8 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: We're not just 9 zipping by in our bicycles. Were having a 10 second glass of Beaujolais over in the 11 French place, you know, for a couple of 12 hours. So, you know, we're going to be 13 looking at you.14 MR. REVUELTA: I understand that, but 15 I think the park-like setting that is 16 being created on this property, the fact 17 that we're setting back what we're setting 18 back from the property lines, and the 19 amenities that are being created and the 20 fact that I happen to think, and I hope 21 four of you agree, that the style of 22 architecture of this building is halfway 23 decent and halfway sensible, I think that 24 will make for a nice bottle of Beaujolais, 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 21 of 28 sheets Page 81 to 84 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 81 not just a glass.1 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: I'm sorry, you're 2 a charming gentleman, but I would say that 3 the halfway thing is exactly how we got 4 into 5th and Alton. And I think that when 5 you have a very expensive -- not very 6 expensive, a very prominent, thank you, 7 site, we -- that that halfway decent 8 thing thing -- and I know you were being 9 self-effacing.10 MR. REVUELTA: I understand that, but 11 I can be chastised for Regatta too, but 12 for me now to bear the burden of the 13 design of 5th and Alton, it's probably 14 more than my mind can bear today.15 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: No, no, it's just 16 -- it's just -- it's just that -- it's the 17 -- it's just the human temptation of any 18 Board, which is to say, okay, you know, 19 okay, well, it's better, it's better. And 20 I'm just saying that's what you get. 21 MS. SUSSKIND: We don't live in a 22 halfway neighborhood. 23 MR. HELD: Excuse me. The public 24 hearing has been closed. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 82 MS. SUSSKIND: Thank you.1 MR. HELD: No one else should 2 approach the podium unless requested by 3 the Board.4 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: I'll make it 5 official as Chairman. We've ended public 6 comment. Thank you. 7 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Yeah. I just 8 like to add a few comments here. You 9 know, I'm a bit torn by the comments that 10 have been made by my colleagues, and I do 11 agree that, you know, there's always room 12 for better improvement. The massing on 13 the second, the larger building is a bit 14 much. 15 I'm torn by the requirement of 16 reducing that one story on the eastern 17 building. I'm not sure whether that would 18 add or not. I know that, as a neighbor, I 19 would prefer the lower height. There's no 20 question about it. 21 I wanted to ask Mr. Revuelta how many 22 units would you lose if you reduced that 23 fifth story on the east building? 24 MR. REVUELTA: It's six units that 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 83 you lose -- eight, I'm sorry.1 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Eight, eight 2 units. 3 On some of the amenities that you 4 proffered, the bay walk, which is great, 5 the park at the entrance is great, the 6 view corridor in the middle of the two 7 buildings is great. I really -- I'm not 8 sure how I'm going to vote. I think since 9 I haven't been here for the whole history 10 of the project, I believe there's been a 11 lot of improvement. I would agree with -- 12 with the glass treatment as far as having 13 two different colors. I wanted to hear 14 from the Staff as to why there's been a 15 change between green and blue, or all blue 16 or all green, if you could comment on 17 that, please. 18 MR. CARY: Yes. Originally the 19 building was all one single design, 20 connected by a bridge, using the same 21 color glass throughout, basically the same 22 architectural design, both components. 23 Then we requested that the building be 24 broken into two distinctive buildings of 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 84 two different design heights. So it 1 wasn't a continuous, for lack of a better 2 term, monotonous design all the way along 3 the waterfront, the entire length of the 4 project. 5 We also explored the idea of, if 6 we're going to change the style of the 7 architecture between the two buildings, 8 perhaps we should explore changing the 9 color of the glass that's used. 10 So we looked at the first rendering, 11 which is basically the same design that 12 you're looking at right now, but with one 13 building being with green glass, and the 14 other being with blue glass and we did not 15 think it worked well at all. 16 So we felt the change of design was 17 more than adequate to address our 18 concerns, rather than having a change in 19 color of glass at the same time. So we 20 concluded that the more -- that the less 21 aggressive glass color, being the greenish 22 color, was the better color to go with for 23 both buildings. That it was the quieter 24 we felt.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 85 to 88 of 109 22 of 28 sheets 85 MR. REVUELTA: Lillian, keep in mind 1 that the additional story on the east 2 building was not an issue, that, to my 3 recollection, was brought out by the 4 neighbors, but the neighbors were adamant 5 about taking the bridge out. And I think 6 it was Staff who -- who has spearheaded 7 that argument. But what I've heard 8 consistently from the neighbors is that 9 they're concerned about traffic, the 10 employees of the construction, where are 11 they going to park, and then the storm 12 sewer situation, which apparently is very 13 bad in there. And then the bridge, big 14 issue with the bridge, which I personally 15 have to take fault for that, 'cause I felt 16 that it was a nice feature, and then I 17 gave up on it. 18 We've actually given up on everything 19 that we felt architecturally was 20 appropriate. We've given up on it.21 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Right. And on 22 the flooding, I understand. I go by 23 there, and there are problems. And Mr. 24 Kasdin has brought up the issue of the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 86 pump, infrastructure job that seems to be 1 not working, or hopes to be in effect. 2 When -- if you were to be approved for 3 this project, when would you actually 4 start construction? What's the schedule 5 on that? 6 MR. REVUELTA: If I'm still the 7 architect, hopefully, hopefully right 8 away, but it's going to take some time to 9 develop construction documents. It's 10 going to take some time to get pricing. 11 So I can tell you it will not be right 12 away. It will take a while. 13 And like (inaudible) mentioned, the 14 new -- the new disposal of rain water on 15 this new project is going to be a new 16 system, and it's going to be a system that 17 has to work better than what the property 18 has now, plus the fact of whatever the 19 city or the county is doing on the 20 causeway to improve drainage, all that I 21 think is going to go a long way to solving 22 the water problem, the flooding.23 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: And on the 24 transportation concurrency, which the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 87 Staff is saying that it has not been met, 1 what would be the actual process of 2 remedying that? I know -- I just want to 3 hear the answers on that, yeah.4 MR. KASDIN: Well, on that, on that 5 we pay a concurrency fee, and that's how 6 it is met. 7 MR. CARY: Lily, basically, what 8 Staff and I think the Board has been 9 trying to do over the past several months 10 this project has been before us, we 11 recognize that zoning allows a large 12 development on this site. Zoning also 13 allows for the existing buildings to be 14 demolished. They're not historic 15 structures. The Board has no authority in 16 saying you can't demolish those buildings. 17 So we've looked at a variety of 18 approaches, as to how we can make a larger 19 development fit comfortably onto the 20 island, especially considering the north 21 side of the island has the smaller scale 22 than buildings on the south side of the 23 island, 200 versus a 50 foot height limit. 24 So we've been trying to ease as many 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 88 aspects of the building, where it's 1 quality design, creating one building from 2 another, while still being as quiet and as 3 calm as possible. So the impact of larger 4 development has a minimal adverse effect 5 on both the adjacent neighbors and the 6 character of the historic Venetian 7 Causeway, which is terribly important, as 8 well as designated as an American scenic 9 highway, as well as it's on the national 10 register of historic places, and it's 11 locally designated in both Miami and in 12 Miami Beach and the respective sides of 13 the city limits. So that's basically what 14 we're trying to do, is to really calm the 15 project down, to make it slip comfortably 16 and as smoothly into the neighborhood as 17 we can, acknowledging that zoning allows 18 for a larger building there.19 MR. REVUELTA: I like to also 20 mention, William, we conceivably could 21 have made the east building a slightly 22 longer building and a lower building, but 23 that would have been at the expense of 24 eliminating the park-like setting on the 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 23 of 28 sheets Page 89 to 92 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 89 east side. So we've made a choice, which 1 we were hoping to be able to be on the 2 same page with Staff, that it's better to 3 compress the east building and its 4 footprint and make it at five stories than 5 to lengthen it and take away from the 6 park-like feeling on the east side, so 7 there is that option. But -- and although 8 I don't agree with it, you could make the 9 east building a little longer and a little 10 lower, but I do not agree. But whether I 11 agree with it or not probably doesn't 12 matter today. 13 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Does that not 14 relate specifically to what Mr. Mooney 15 explained to us two meetings ago, that you 16 would lose a few parking spaces. And if 17 you were to agree to expand the surface -- 18 a couple of studios into some one bedrooms 19 that you would actually be able to shave 20 off some envelope here. 21 MR. CARY: Clotilde, the size of the 22 units have fewer units, fewer parking 23 spaces required.24 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Right, because 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 90 you would -- okay. And that's where your 1 developer has refused to budge, so that's 2 why we are stuck here. 3 MR. KASDIN: Mr. Chair, just to 4 briefly respond. I mean, I don't want 5 this to become a protracted debate, but it 6 is totally appropriate to offer the rental 7 -- the rental units that they are 8 offering. In fact, it is a well-known 9 statistic that the City of Miami Beach has 10 the greatest disparity of any major city 11 in the United States between rich and 12 poor, and that's because we don't have 13 housing that is available and affordable 14 for the middle class, working class 15 individuals. This is a very appropriate, 16 a most appropriate kind of housing to be 17 provided in the City of Miami Beach, and I 18 think it's consistent with good social 19 policy. 20 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: The one bedroom 21 could be considered aspirational for the 22 struggling masses that you're eloquently 23 defending today. 24 MS. SUSSKIND: Can you say what 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 91 concurrencies are, please, and how they 1 work so that we understand the term that 2 you're using? 3 DIRECTOR MOONEY: Just the audience's 4 reference, concurrency refers to a state 5 mandated law that requires that new 6 development be concurrent with adopted 7 levels of service that have been 8 established under the city's comprehensive 9 plan with regard to things such as sewer, 10 water, parks and recreation, school, and 11 traffic and roadway. And whenever you 12 have a development that is going to 13 increase the capacity of a particular 14 project and result in more vehicles and 15 more vehicular trips, a concurrency 16 analysis needs to be conducted. And if it 17 is determined that the number of vehicular 18 trips will increase because of this 19 development, then that increase would need 20 to be mitigated in some manner. And more 21 often than not, it's usually mitigated 22 through the payment of a concurrency 23 impact fee. 24 MS. SUSSKIND: And how does --25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 92 MR. HELD: This is not -- ma'am, this 1 is not a dialogue.2 DIRECTOR MOONEY: The public hearing 3 is closed. I did that just for the 4 public's reference, as a courtesy. 5 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Okay. I think 6 where we are right now is, there's a 7 couple of things that I still want to 8 discuss the status. 9 Currently, I believe we're still at a 10 -- at a -- for lack of a term, a stalemate 11 with regards to the height of the 12 southeast building. 13 The other issue is, I'm trying to 14 speak to president of the neighborhood 15 association, and how they outline the 16 concerns. 17 One of the concerns was the storm 18 drainage of the area, and Mr. Kasdin spoke 19 there's going to be some drainage issues 20 as a result of the construction. 21 My question is to Staff and city is, 22 is there a CIP project regarding that's 23 going to be addressing the storm water and 24 the drainage in that park planned? Was, 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 93 to 96 of 109 24 of 28 sheets 93 and it was done? 1 MR. KASDIN: Mr. Deluca, to clarify, 2 what I said is, the on-site drainage will 3 be improved, will be improved.4 MR. HELD: On-site. I understand. I 5 understand. Okay, and it's been done.6 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: In fact, during 7 high tide and a full moon, that's when the 8 eastern side of the island has the worst 9 flooding. 10 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: All right. And 11 then there is the further development of 12 the main building, according to Staff 13 comments, which I believe is increasing -- 14 increasing the stepping. Is that it, 15 William? 16 MR. CARY: Yes, it's on the bay side.17 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: On the bay side. 18 MR. CARY: Further development of the 19 south wall of the north building to 20 maximize to the greatest extent possible 21 the size of the view corridor between the 22 two buildings.23 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Okay. All right. 24 And I believe, Luis and Mr. Kasdin, right 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 94 now the issue is that in regards to all 1 the recommendations, with the exception of 2 the lowering five to four -- 3 MR. REVUELTA: We are accepting 4 everything, except that. And we're going 5 to try beyond belief to try not come back 6 to you. If we don't agree, we're going to 7 try -- we're going to try to agree on 8 everything that they say, so we don't have 9 to come back to this Board. So the 10 intention is to try to work out all the 11 issues that they're concerned with in 12 terms of detailing, et cetera, et cetera. 13 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Well, I guess what 14 I want to do is -- I'm going to wait for 15 Gabrielle to come back, but the 16 questioning to the Board is, whether the 17 Board is comfortable that these 18 recommendations be worked out with Staff, 19 and can the Board come up with a motion 20 that would allow that to happen or is the 21 Board at the point where they don't want 22 that now? 23 MR. CARY: That's the critical issue. 24 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: That's the critical 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 95 issue.1 MR. CARY: Right. Then the 2 application has expired. New application 3 will need to be --4 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: And here's the 5 point I want to make. However motion is 6 made, if it's going to be the opposite, if 7 there's a board member that's going to 8 say, no, we don't -- we're not going -- 9 I'm not going to recommend this, then 10 there's going to have to be guidance given 11 to the applicant on what they want to see. 12 So now that that's out -- 13 DIRECTOR MOONEY: Mr. Chairman, also 14 just as a point of information, since this 15 is the short board, at least four members 16 would need to vote in favor of any 17 approval.18 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Yes.19 DIRECTOR MOONEY: And if the Board 20 was not to approve it, for whatever 21 reason, you would also need to make sure 22 that any denials without prejudice, so 23 that they could resubmit sooner than six 24 months, if it comes to that. 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 96 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Just a quick 1 question for the city. 2 Does the city require a construction 3 staging plan to bring construction workers 4 on and off-site? Do you do anything like 5 that? 6 DIRECTOR MOONEY: That's usually 7 handled by the Building Department. 8 MR. KASDIN: Mr. Chair, also one 9 other thing. If there is denial, under 10 state law, there must be a specific -- a 11 finding as the basis of the denial. 12 MR. HELD: What's your expectation to 13 that, Mr. Kasdin?14 MR. KASDIN: What? 15 MR. HELD: What's your reference to 16 state law requiring findings? It's my 17 understanding that findings are not 18 required.19 MR. KASDIN: It's my understanding 20 they are, Mr. Held. 21 MR. HELD: Do you have a citation? 22 MR. KASDIN: Not in my pocket, but 23 I'll get it for you. 24 MR. HELD: Okay. Hopefully you won't 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 25 of 28 sheets Page 97 to 100 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 97 need it.1 MR. KASDIN: Okay.2 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Question, Mr. 3 Chair. 4 If the application was to be denied, 5 and there is a submittal, another possible 6 re-submittal, but it would start the whole 7 process over with a new permit -- I mean, 8 a new application, excuse me. 9 MR. CARY: New application, new 10 application fees. The whole process 11 begins again.12 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: And it does 13 expire -- 14 MR. CARY: I mean, they can resume 15 from where they are right now in terms of 16 design.17 MR. REVUELTA: New architect, 18 everything would be new. 19 MR. KASDIN: We're just requesting 20 approval with the fifth floor. We've gone 21 to extraordinary lengths to accommodate 22 the wishes of the Board, the Staff, and 23 the architect and the neighbors. And Mr. 24 Revuelta has -- has stated, and has worked 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 98 very closely with Staff, that he will work 1 with him on the remaining issues. I think 2 we respectfully request at this time to at 3 this point approve it and let's move on. 4 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Well, there's 5 either going to be a motion or not. 6 MR. HELD: So is there a motion? 7 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Is there a motion 8 from the Board? 9 MR. CARY: You can always take a 10 straw poll vote, if you want to. 11 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: I think we'll have 12 to take a straw poll vote. I think that's 13 what we're going to have to end up doing, 14 if there's no motion on board. 15 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: I'll make a 16 motion to approve the project subject to 17 all staff conditions.18 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Will you take 19 a friendly amendment of having the 20 architect explore a machine room-less 21 traction elevator in exchange for one of 22 the -- one or more of the hydraulic 23 elevators in the small building? 24 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: That's 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 99 acceptable.1 MR. HELD: I thought you were going 2 to do that, or the request was that it not 3 be a condition. 4 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: It's not a 5 condition, that they explore. It's not a 6 requirement, they explore. 7 DIRECTOR MOONEY: The applicant has 8 basically agreed to explore that verbally.9 MR. CARY: Well, you don't mind it 10 being put on as a condition, to explore 11 it, do you?12 MR. KASDIN: No.13 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: And where are 14 we with the blue and the green? 15 MR. CARY: Green, just one color of 16 glass. 17 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Why? Because 18 you like it better and you don't like the 19 blue and the green diamond? 20 MR. CARY: Well, I don't know. I 21 guess -- I don't like to seem prejudiced, 22 but the Portofino Tower with the shocking 23 blue glass has always been simply the most 24 disturbing building in the city to me ever 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 100 since it was constructed.1 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: So this is a 2 personal thing for you, William? 3 MR. CARY: It's a design.4 MR. HELD: He is a design 5 professional.6 MR. CARY: It's a design thing.7 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Yeah, but the 8 problem with the building is the orange of 9 the building, not the blue of the glass.10 MR. CARY: Also, I think that the 11 blue -- that the green glass, the grey 12 green glass is much more environmentally 13 compatible, friendly, softer. It doesn't 14 jump out at you. I think it's quieter for 15 the neighborhood. We already have 16 wonderful blue skies, and we have a blue 17 bay. We don't need to have blue glass in 18 the buildings as well.19 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Why not? It's 20 so pretty.21 MR. CARY: Well, I mean, I would only 22 say that whether the Board opts for blue 23 glass or green glass, that the glass color 24 be consistent for both buildings and not 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 101 to 104 of 109 26 of 28 sheets 101 be different. I mean, I love cats, one 1 blue eye and one brown eye, but I don't 2 think that it's the best way to go.3 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: I have something 4 that I'd like to request also. 5 MR. HELD: Well, Mr. Chair, there's 6 been the motion. Is there a second? 7 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Yeah.8 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: No, no, but I'm 9 going to ask you to consider something. I 10 mean, clearly I'm not going to vote for 11 approval of this today. But if this does 12 get approved, I am -- I would suggest that 13 you add a condition that if for any reason 14 the property changes hands before it is 15 built, that it not -- that it come for a 16 new design review approval. In other 17 words, if they sell the property -- 18 MR. HELD: No, this is not something 19 that we have ever required, to my 20 knowledge. Do you have a -- okay, as a 21 condition -- 22 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Uh-hum.23 MR. HELD: -- this Board is 24 exercising police powers. So is there 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 102 some justification that you can put forth 1 for it, because -- 2 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Oh, well, simply 3 because I think that it is basically a 4 long slog compromise that we're arriving 5 at today.6 MR. HELD: Right. But all of the 7 conditions are binding on the owner and 8 subsequent owners. So if it's acceptable 9 for this owner, it should be acceptable 10 for subsequent owner. 11 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: Well, that's what 12 I'm saying, they were to sell it, sell it 13 with approved plans. But I -- given that 14 there hasn't been that much enthusiasm for 15 it, it might be on occasion to explore 16 what another developer would do with the 17 site. So I'm just saying, is that totally 18 novel condition that would be added, 19 that's never been done? 20 MR. HELD: Yeah. Planning Board 21 would require that a subsequent 22 owner/operator come before the Board to 23 indicate understanding and willingness to 24 comply with conditions. And sometimes 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 103 there's a modification provision, but this 1 is a structural project and not an 2 operating project. So for structural 3 projects, where something is being 4 constructed, it's typically not a 5 requirement. 6 MR. KASDIN: Right.7 MR. HELD: Either it satisfies the 8 requirements in the code for approval, and 9 compliance with state law under police 10 power, regulations or it does not.11 MR. KASDIN: And the order is 12 recorded, and it goes with the land. So 13 if there's any modification whatsoever, 14 then any -- first of all, Mr. Munoz has 15 owned this property for well over 20 16 years. And he has owned a number of 17 properties on Miami Beach for well over 20 18 years. And he's building this as a rental 19 building, not to take the money and run, 20 but as a long-term investment. That is 21 his -- the singular characteristic of all 22 of his investments in this area for over 23 30 years. But it is recorded order that 24 goes with the land. And if someone -- if 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 104 for some reason it's sold some day, and 1 someone wants to come in and do something 2 different, they have to come back to this 3 Board. 4 MR. REVUELTA: Can I make a question 5 from Alex? Alex, you mentioned at the 6 beginning of the meeting that if we were 7 to reduce the size of the fifth floor, 8 would it make sense to you and to Lily if 9 we reduced the size of the fifth floor and 10 to cut a couple of units and make maybe 11 larger units with bigger terraces, would 12 that make a difference with your thinking? 13 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: That's what I 14 was getting at. I just think it may be 15 helpful to have four floors by the 16 causeway and step it back, whether they be 17 terraces, something, not a building. 18 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Yeah, and if I 19 may.20 MR. REVUELTA: Well, let me rephrase 21 what I said and what I think I heard you 22 to say at the beginning of the meeting. 23 If we took out some of the size of the 24 fifth floor and made it smaller by taking 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 27 of 28 sheets Page 105 to 108 of 109 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM 105 out some units, is that something that 1 makes sense to you or not? 2 MR. CARY: Luis, I think that's going 3 to have a significant design impact that 4 is probably something that the Board 5 should look at. I think the Board either 6 needs to make a decision for this -- at 7 this point on whether to require a fifth 8 floor or not. You can always come back at 9 a later date. If it's approved with four 10 floors, you come back with an amendment 11 for a later date requesting the Board to 12 consider a partial fifth floor or a 13 reduced size fifth floor. 14 MR. REVUELTA: Well, I'm bringing it 15 up because Alex brought it up.16 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Now, my motion 17 stands subject to Staff conditions. 18 MR. CARY: I have a concern. I have 19 a concern about Staff trying to figure out 20 whether, you know, part of the fifth floor 21 is something the Board would approve. 22 Right. So I would either see it one way 23 or the other. Either all five floors or 24 all four floors. You can always come back 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 106 and seek an amendment to the application, 1 you know, after approval, if you wish to.2 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Just to clarify, 3 my motion is to approve the project 4 subject to Staff -- you know, Staff 5 recommendations. 6 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: And I second 7 it with the friendly amendments. 8 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Your amendment.9 DIRECTOR MOONEY: The amendment was 10 the exploring an elevator without a 11 machine room. And then the other one was 12 that both buildings shall utilize the 13 green glass.14 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I didn't say 15 that.16 DIRECTOR MOONEY: Well, what's the 17 conclusion on the glass? 18 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: My point of 19 view, and I think I agree, is to have a 20 different color, because it does break out 21 the two different buildings, but it would 22 be interesting to hear from Mr. Revuelta 23 on this point. If you would be so kind, 24 just again to address that, how you feel 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 107 about that. 1 MR. REVUELTA: I feel that there 2 should be one glass, architecturally just 3 like I felt there should be one design, 4 but historically my opinion has not done 5 well. But I do feel that it should be one 6 glass, not two different glasses. 7 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: Thank you. So 8 it's really up to you then. 9 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: No, it's up to 10 everybody. 11 BOARD MEMBER MEDINA: No, I withdraw 12 my recommendation for two different glass 13 treatments. 14 DIRECTOR MOONEY: So does the motion 15 include one glass treatment? 16 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: I think that the 17 motion should be one glass treatment, to 18 be determined by Staff and the applicant. 19 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Who second? Did 20 someone second? 21 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: I second.22 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Oh, okay. 23 Gabrielle second. 24 MR. CARY: There is a second.25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 108 BOARD MEMBER DAVID: Gabrielle.1 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: Yeah. 2 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: There is a second. 3 Okay. All those in favor? 4 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye. 5 CHAIRMAN DELUCA: Opposed? 6 BOARD MEMBER LUCE: You want to 7 guess? Sorry. No. 8 BOARD MEMBER REDFERN: So build it 9 fast.10 (Thereupon, at 11:53 a.m., the 11 hearing was concluded).12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS, INC. (305) 373-5600 08/08/2010 09:56:27 PM Page 109 to 109 of 109 28 of 28 sheets 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS,INC.(305)373-5600 109 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I,Lorena Ramos,National Registered Professional Reporter and Florida Professional Reporter,do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did report the foregoing proceedings before the City of Miami Beach Design Review Board,Item Belle Isle Apartments,and that the transcript,pages 1 through 108,is a true and correct record of the VIDEOTAPED proceeding,to the best of my ability. DATED this 8th day of August 2010 at Miami-Dade County,Florida. _____________________________ LORENA RAMOS,RPR &FPR COURT REPORTER **TRANSCRIBED FROM VIDEOTAPED PROCEEDING**